Show off them splices

eyehearttrees

Active Member
@Samsquanch I love it, I'd hated all the slings with these pinto & similar micropulleys (still not a fan LOL) but splicing those prusik legs onto the thing was a great idea (can't see in the pic but presuming there's *something* fortifying the metal//rope interfacing itself?) What's the 2nd prusik for? I'm a huge fan of prusiks wherever possible lol but it seems that side already has an eye (or is it for use opposite the larger eye? So many configurations there!)

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Here's 6 of the 7 I've ever tried, I failed on my 1st attempt but after that was using a wire fid to great success with the Samson method, have taken a moderate Wesspur order and made myself a great "mini, heavy-duty kit" (short 75' long 5/8" polydyne, a longer 90' 1/2" polydyne length, and enough 3/4" polydyne to make two slings that are 20' minus whatever was lost to the splicing, one got a big 3/4" steel thimble (that was like $5, so <$30 for that ~20' sling :) ) the other a Safebloc I had been needing a sling for, in fact I did my B.Moon splicings to learn for this order, and did all my splices working-upwards on diameter, this wasn't for shits&giggles as obviously that's a backwards approach, it was because I was afraid of messing-up my Safebloc eye so I wanted to be as prepped as possible for it!!

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Should be clear, especially before updating my other thread in this sub, that I'm new to advanced-rigging and these are all still unused, heck my 3-ring x-sling has hardly gotten any real use, I've found that i'm automatically/subconsciously approaching rigging in the same manner (though probably more severely) as I did climbing IE scared of it & needing to know everything before being careful enough to 'commit' to anything, I mean I'll climb on my B.Moon right now w/o a false crotch, with knots and think nothing of trusting my life to it - literally never give it a 2nd thought - but that took a great deal of learning about the line, fall-arrest in general and all that stuff, but while rigging is the same in many regards it's actually way more involved since with climb lines you're really just aiming for something that won't rip when subjected to a good human fall, while with rigging the dynamic load is always different, the calculations inherently imprecise and, probably most confusing to me of all, is that in the context of ropes where every real use 'cycles' the rope to a stiffer and stiffer, ultimately unusable rope, cannot comprehend why ropes like Sirius (1.5%), Stable Braid (1.1%), Tenex (1.5%) etc are even considered 'bull lines' and not seen the exact way that dyneema products like amsteel are seen... Rigging is similar to, but far more involved than, human fall-arrest so I expect to be splicing & playing with this stuff for months before I get a chance to actually deploy anything neat in a real context!


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So....time to show off all my splices, no pics from the 1st of 7 which was a failure but from there:

1st and 2nd successful splices, the thimble was the latter one I sadly didn't think to put the thimble in until too late on the first one and didn't want to stop just wanted to achieve a successful splice LOL, thankfully I remembered to put the chafe sleeve on before doing the 2nd splice so I can now use this as a general lanyard (4') or it works great as a 3-wrap prusik on 5/8" and 3/4" polydyne:
20191109_091356.jpg
Aaaahh, fresh meat :D LOL! Kept to my under $200 budget, barely, got enough to try the neat things I couldn't do on weaker ropes & with fewer anchors!
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Gotta ask- this should be scary right? This has gotten pretty minimal usage, only as a lanyard / never loaded quick/dynamic or anything, the cord's looking great yet the tag is ripping? It's an Epicord from Bartlett's:
20191116_012327.jpg
My splicing method is wire-fid, haven't found my favorite way to use it but basically I get the core taped to a tapered tail, then I work the aluminum wire through it and whether I came in the exit or entrance with the aluminum, I end up pulling-through a properly-tapered, strong-as-heck (but desk-tape lol) aluminum wires-with-core tapered bit that I've gotten through every time I've tried :D Last splices I was really just geeking-out on making sure the yarns/tracers stayed perfectly in-line as the rope turned the splice and went into itself!
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Finished product for that one was quite tight, cover is bulging, not as tight as b.moon though lol but still I worry about 'cinching' and can't find info about it - what if it was 1/2" worse than this? This hasn't gotten real use so wouldn't be surprised to see it suck-up another 1/2", if it was already 1/2" deeper I expect that'd be a problem IE 1" from where it is now, wouldn't it just get so tight it'd stress-out along the thimble?
20191117_173337.jpg


AAaaand what I was building towards in my splices, the Safebloc :D Couldn't find any online that were double-braid spliced, just tenex/similar hollows (can't stand the idea of all-poly ropes, want everything in my system as good/better at dynamic forces than static lol), so had to do my best to estimate eye-size based on the thimbles I'd spliced prior to this, think I did a good job this is set as hard as I could snap it with it hooked to my truck hitch:
20191117_230133.jpg 20191118_191412.jpg
Was sooo afraid of not getting the eye-size right, seems very critical here LOL, am happy with this: 20191118_191223.jpg

Oh and for-comparison, because I had to scoff at their magazine erroneously saying that tenex is 'stronger than same-diameter double braids', sometimes that's true *but* polydyne is stronger (static/tensile ABS) per-diameter than tenex, about the same price, yet - most importantly - it has dynamic absorption that tenex couldn't dream of (3% versus 1.5%), am surprised I couldn't even find pics of someone using a double braid to splice their Safebloc sling, your sling should be ~2X stronger than your bull line and, while not really stated anywhere, it's fair to say it should be similar elasticity I mean a 2X strength rating would be meaningless if it ignored that you went from 3% to 1.5%, that'd have a dramatic effect on peak-load-capacity of the sling....am NOT trying to do anything that's going to push my 3/4" slings (especially since there's almost always multiple slings/anchors) but rather see it as something where you should exert as minimal-as-possible force to the system as a whole but in this case the lines, they are forever stretching and as they lose elasticity they lose dynamic-capacity it's just how rope works so for instance I have 75' of the 5/8", 90' of the 1/2", if I'm doing something simple that's just 30' up then I'd default to the 75' of 5/8" NOT because I need the strength, the 11k 1/2" is plenty for anything I'd do, but because the greater %-of-ABS a line is pushed, the more it's stretched&worn, the less cycles-til-failure it's got, so IF you can easily avoid it you should use a rope that'll get a lower %ABS load on it IE the thicker line! But Re Tenex V polydyne, this is 3/4" of both, admittedly that ring is 44mm and the Safebloc is 40mm - 10% difference - but the 3/4" polydyne just looks so much tighter/tougher, would rather be banging that on bark than tenex I mean I'd be OK to use polydyne w/o a sleeve I wouldn't use tenex w/o a sleeve unless I really had to lol, at any rate I can't figure out why tenex is a go-to for slings like this instead of polydyne (or atlas, or nystron....for me, Yale made one of these outliers so I went with that....still can't believe how static bull ropes are or *why* they're made that way :/ )
20191122_190535.jpg

[edited-to-add: wasn't trying to single Bartlett's out on that bad sewn Epicord, they have a subsidiary do it like most IIRC, just wanted to be clear it wasn't Wesspur as all the Polydyne adn the new big thimbles are all from a <$200 order thanks to their clearance/odd-lengths section, their associates were great, will totally be using them for my next order of significance - unless it's the order with my next Safebloc in which there's only 1 choice so far as I can tell]
 
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Samsquanch

Active Member
@Samsquanch I love it, I'd hated all the slings with these pinto & similar micropulleys (still not a fan LOL) but splicing those prusik legs onto the thing was a great idea (can't see in the pic but presuming there's *something* fortifying the metal//rope interfacing itself?) What's the 2nd prusik for? I'm a huge fan of prusiks wherever possible lol but it seems that side already has an eye (or is it for use opposite the larger eye? So many configurations there!)
So. That extra prusik is for retrieval, it usually has a retrieval clip on the end, i just have to go buy one. The wire in the soft eye has the ends rounded over then two layers of glue lined heat shrink over it to encapsulate it.
I like these style rope guides. The small eye splice can be for many things, like tying the retrieval side of a canopy tied srt line to it for safe retrieval of the rope guide.
 

eyehearttrees

Active Member
Now that I think about it I really should splice a 2nd blue moon eye&eye sling with those 1/2" metal thimbles, would like to have (1) 4' length for each of my 3/4" slings they bite well (of course) and a BM prusik with thimbles is pretty strong, would be able to leave one on each of the 3/4" slings so that when there's a crotch I can just tighten it to the right length and have a 2-legged sling instead of 1 (well, 1 leg would be the BM prusik end, but 2 BM legs spliced properly is still like 2/3rd the strength of the 3/4" sling, would obviously down-rate appropriately in that configuration!)
4' was about as short as you'd wanna go if putting it on 3/4" (or even the 5/8 actually) polydyne, unsure how bad polydyne is with 'nominal' (ie 'not real') sizing but know tenex is even worse, but with a prusik it seems it's not so much "optimal is 25% shorter diameter", it's "optimal is at least 25% shorter diameter", shorter should only improve bite-quality!
 

eyehearttrees

Active Member
So. That extra prusik is for retrieval, it usually has a retrieval clip on the end, i just have to go buy one. The wire in the soft eye has the ends rounded over then two layers of glue lined heat shrink over it to encapsulate it.
I like these style rope guides. The small eye splice can be for many things, like tying the retrieval side of a canopy tied srt line to it for safe retrieval of the rope guide.
What do you mean by 'style rope guides? And lol at the prusik being for retrieval, am I guessing right that someone just wanted to splice? You've gotta have spliced everything else in your kit to be splicing the retrieval lines on! I hadn't even thought of that much TBH, I've been lucky enough that I can usually free climb or spur my way to an anchor spot so honestly I suck at my slingshot and the line/ball (keep meaning to practice damnit!!) but need to work on my ground install/retrieval skills at least getting in the habit of setting retrievals, although I'll be tying-on day-glo paracord not splicing pretty accessory cord on ;D What kinda cordage was that BTW? Real attractive stuff!! Sadly Yale is very boring and I'm stuck on their products (learned most of what I know from people who primarily hover towards Yale, have looked into them enough, wish they'd innovate some more - Atlas, at 4.5% stretch, I am sure will prove to be a great innovation / step forward, wish Yale (and Samson) would get on that (nystron, samson's most-dynamic offering, is far older than yale's esterlon&polydyne lines, and they're the most-dynamic cables available except for Atlas!)

Do you know anything about end-splicing? I want to make the ends on my (2) long slings' tails tapered, stiff splices for ease of knotability (thanks Teufelberger for the idea, though I'm picturing much shorter/stubbier, somewhere in-between normal and the long/skinny thing they do) Want to just jump in but unsure when in the process to cut the tapered-angle into things, and moreso I'm unsure about the ramifications of pinning - or not - the core to the cover when doing the backsplice, would LOVE to hear @NickfromWI 's thoughts on this, it bothered me seeing on Tree Stuff that Samson's Velocity line suggests you *don't* get both ends spliced 'due to milking issues', if anything I'd think that containing it would be better....maybe the core elongates quicker than the cover so you just cut the excess off to keep a consistent ratio of the two? My core sticks-out of my Blue Moon line by maybe 6", seemed weird to me as I'd expect the cover to stretch first, but it makes me think that if I'd had it pinned, and then un-pinned it, sure *some* extra core may've come out but not 6" worth....am planning to milk the cover from the other end, as thoroughly as possible, to see if I can't get-rid of the difference and suck that core back into the line, doesn't make sense that there should be such an imbalance in permanent-elongation stretching in a poly-over-poly rope of this sort, but since the interior braid is so much looser I do expect it could be 'milked out of place', I just can't reconcile that with Samson saying *don't* splice both ends, woulda thought it'd be "splice both ends, and keep an eye out for any bunching or odd spots, if&when noticed deal with immediately"(IE cut or throw out, from their perspective at least)
 

eyehearttrees

Active Member
Gah wish I could find instructions for a tapered back-splice (like Teufelberger's!!) am so close to just 'free-handing' it..

LOL I was trying to find info and stumbled on something funny- NEropes' splicing-tutorial is actually just a copypasta of Teufelberger's, and I don't just mean the templates themselves I mean they accidentally left TEUFELBERGER'S CONTACT INFO at the back page of 'their' splicing-guide:
NEropes using TFLBRGR's template for their splice tutorial LOL didn't remove TFLBRGR's info fr...png
They (NEropes) 'properly' swapped their name on the cover page but they forgot to remove the Teufelberger contact-info from the final page of the splicing guide, was reading it thinking "this is familiar" LOL then find that at the end, thanks NEropes I read that in-hopes of catching something new since that's the only way I've found to get more-advanced splicing info is to comb-over stuff and hope for a new detail here&there, sucks to flip through a whole catalog only to realize it's one you've already flipped through!
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
NER is owned by Teufelberger now. Have never used instructions for a back splice, you only need to determine how long of a bury and how much taper. If the taper is too long it might not stop what you want to.
 

Samsquanch

Active Member
What do you mean by 'style rope guides? And lol at the prusik being for retrieval, am I guessing right that someone just wanted to splice? You've gotta have spliced everything else in your kit to be splicing the retrieval lines on! I hadn't even thought of that much TBH, I've been lucky enough that I can usually free climb or spur my way to an anchor spot so honestly I suck at my slingshot and the line/ball (keep meaning to practice damnit!!) but need to work on my ground install/retrieval skills at least getting in the habit of setting retrievals, although I'll be tying-on day-glo paracord not splicing pretty accessory cord on ;D What kinda cordage was that BTW? Real attractive stuff!! Sadly Yale is very boring and I'm stuck on their products (learned most of what I know from people who primarily hover towards Yale, have looked into them enough, wish they'd innovate some more - Atlas, at 4.5% stretch, I am sure will prove to be a great innovation / step forward, wish Yale (and Samson) would get on that (nystron, samson's most-dynamic offering, is far older than yale's esterlon&polydyne lines, and they're the most-dynamic cables available except for Atlas!)

Do you know anything about end-splicing? I want to make the ends on my (2) long slings' tails tapered, stiff splices for ease of knotability (thanks Teufelberger for the idea, though I'm picturing much shorter/stubbier, somewhere in-between normal and the long/skinny thing they do) Want to just jump in but unsure when in the process to cut the tapered-angle into things, and moreso I'm unsure about the ramifications of pinning - or not - the core to the cover when doing the backsplice, would LOVE to hear @NickfromWI 's thoughts on this, it bothered me seeing on Tree Stuff that Samson's Velocity line suggests you *don't* get both ends spliced 'due to milking issues', if anything I'd think that containing it would be better....maybe the core elongates quicker than the cover so you just cut the excess off to keep a consistent ratio of the two? My core sticks-out of my Blue Moon line by maybe 6", seemed weird to me as I'd expect the cover to stretch first, but it makes me think that if I'd had it pinned, and then un-pinned it, sure *some* extra core may've come out but not 6" worth....am planning to milk the cover from the other end, as thoroughly as possible, to see if I can't get-rid of the difference and suck that core back into the line, doesn't make sense that there should be such an imbalance in permanent-elongation stretching in a poly-over-poly rope of this sort, but since the interior braid is so much looser I do expect it could be 'milked out of place', I just can't reconcile that with Samson saying *don't* splice both ends, woulda thought it'd be "splice both ends, and keep an eye out for any bunching or odd spots, if&when noticed deal with immediately"(IE cut or throw out, from their perspective at least)
The cordage is poison ivy calimine. This style, i guess its like the pulley guide from teufelberger. The extra prusik is to allow to pull close to the pulley for better chance of retrieval. Its a prusik and moveable to allow sinching by putting the pulley prusik through the soft eye.

Yale cordage is great. Love prism and arrow frog.
 

jimbo666

Active Member
Picked up a 150 of Wizard 11.5 mm from a place called braids and lace. They habe been manufacturing rope products since the 1930's and supplying the arborist industry since the 70's. I live 25 mins away and didn't even know they existed until they had a booth set up at a climbing comp. I visited the factory yesterday and was very impressed. The price is amazing and the owners are super friendly and were willing to spend a lot of time talking to me about their products and processes...I also found out that they will do break testing (for a small fee) as well as sewn terminations on any rope...not just there own! The verdict is out on the rope as of yet but I will keep you posted. Anyone living in Southern Ontario interested in rope, break testing or sewn terminations I would highly recommend giving them a try


View attachment 63297
I really like their rope , good quality
 
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eyehearttrees

Active Member
I think you inadvertently brought-up something I've been *dying* to know!
NER is owned by Teufelberger now. Have never used instructions for a back splice, you only need to determine how long of a bury and how much taper. If the taper is too long it might not stop what you want to.
"How long of a bury".....is this something I can manipulate by simply altering my baseline "fid-length" measurement? Have been thinking that if, instead of using the general "21 times diameter" for fid-length, that if I used, say, 30 or 35X the diameter for my "fid-length" baseline that I'd end-up with a longer splice...just hadn't tried it yet I don't have anymore rope-ends to splice :p

Also could you elaborate on "if the taper's too-long it might not stop what you want it to"? Uncertain what you mean by that :/
I found 'free-handing' the tapered-backsplice to be a piece of cake, though it's less a splice and more "tapered tail-end that got heavily lock-stitched", I used the cover yarns to lock-up my ~4" tapered tail and then a half-ass true lock-stitch (for redundancy, to help prevent core/cover slippage/milking), then taped it up for further resiliency... gotta say it's pretty great in fact I'll be un-doing the proper/traditional backsplice on my Safebloc sling (left-side of pic) and doing the tapered end to that as well, it's extra cool because unlike a real backsplice, you don't lose rope-length to it IE when I un-do my legit backsplice on my Safebloc sling to make it tapered I'll still have a ~20' sling instead of losing >1' to the splice:
20191210_110653.jpg

Was easier too, just milked-out some core and tapered the last 4" like crazy, then did a moderately-heavy tapering of the cover's last 4", then secured the heck outta it, not nearly as pretty of a splice but certainly makes it easier to pass the rope when knotting it in-place on the tree!!


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And TFLBRG owns NEropes now? WTH? Would love to know / get linked to any details you know, this kind of thing always raises an eyebrow for me after finding-out that some rope re-sellers will have a line - for instance, Dynsorb - that's actually a re-brand of a major company's line (Nystron in the case of Dynsorb) but, apparently, it's OK to swap-out Nystron and use some different cordage and still call it "Dynsorb"! I'd be floored if I found out that I was buying something and it was being changed in the background like that (IE you've used dynsorb for years and then it's switched-away from Nystron to something else and you continue buying it *thinking* it's Nystron when it no longer is)
Can never understand such things, gotta wonder if TFLBRG's incentive here is to simply acquire an extra manufacturing facility or if it's more of a "oligopoly"-type market-share-accumulation move.....won't it be great if one day there's just *1* company making all our cords? [JK obviously!!]
 

JTree

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure the motivations behind the buy, but I'm pretty disappointed that we aren't taking steps to get greater transparency and destroy the disconnect between manufacturers, retailers, and end users. I can think of a couple other industries with this disconnect and it's always frustrating for everyone involved. Rebranding sucks.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
@Samsquance, on the Beeline did you bury the cover separately, or insert it into the core and then bury both together?
 

Samsquanch

Active Member
@Samsquance, on the Beeline did you bury the cover separately, or insert it into the core and then bury both together?
Burried separately. I dont want the cover interfering with the core. Jacket is just for abrasion resistance and UV protection. The internal brummel eye is larger than the final eye allowing the cover to burry and extend inside covering the brummel eye beyond the throat ensuring the core isn't exposed at all.
 

Tommy_B

Member
Burried separately. I dont want the cover interfering with the core. Jacket is just for abrasion resistance and UV protection. The internal brummel eye is larger than the final eye allowing the cover to burry and extend inside covering the brummel eye beyond the throat ensuring the core isn't exposed at all.
Still baffles me!! haha
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Hey Tommy, what part of the second splice is giving you difficulties? It’s only doing some rebraiding of the core tail and then burying it.

I’ve buried the cover tail by splitting it into three or four groups, burying each at different lengths from the eye, in the past, would probably try something different if I were to do one now.
44BB9D60-F307-46C9-A5B4-2A735A8BB0F4.jpeg
 

Tommy_B

Member
Hey Tommy, what part of the second splice is giving you difficulties? It’s only doing some rebraiding of the core tail and then burying it.

I’ve buried the cover tail by splitting it into three or four groups, burying each at different lengths from the eye, in the past, would probably try something different if I were to do one now.
View attachment 65045
I've never seen one done and learn a lot better by watching things. Can't get my head round how the brummel is formed with the jacket over the eye
 

Samsquanch

Active Member
I've never seen one done and learn a lot better by watching things. Can't get my head round how the brummel is formed with the jacket over the eye
Its like doing an eye with a cover...that sounds dumb now im reading it.

So. Measure the burry length. Pull core. Milk and mark exit on core
Measure eye length from core exit. Pull core but not out completely. Pull crom tail end to get a loop sticking out
Milk standing length, loop will get smaller, mark where standing part exits on loop.
Two marks on core are now length and position of eye.
From there, you can pull the core from the standing part, so just the eye part of the jacket is on it. Do the brummel then burry the standing part back into the jacket. Burry the jacket end to complete the eye.

This is why you need to unbraid and rebraid for the 2nd eye. With one done, you can not completely remove the core to do the brummel.

Apologies for high probability of grammar and spelling mistakes. Long day, barely awake.
 

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