Shigo
- Thread starter KevinS
- Start date
KTSmith
Branched out member
- Location
- Maine, New Hampshire
Of the commercial work, probably the most useful to me is "A New Tree Biology" (1986) and the associated dictionary. I think those are sold as a set. That work was done while he was still a Forest Service employee.
"Pithy Points" or "Tree Myths" could be a good starting point as well. In one sense, it doesn't matter where to start as they are all linked together. I think Modern Arboriculture makes more sense if someone already has a grounding in Shigo's recurring themes.
For me, I started with the free Forest Service guides and articles. The really revelatory work on forest trees was his color "Photo Guide" (with E vH. Larson, 1969). He had to compromise some with the language to make it consistent with the FS of the day (that's what Mr. Larson was for). At that time, urban forestry and tree care was really not on his mind. The Photo Guide is available for free download. Search on "Shigo" as author at http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/. Be aware the the file is 26 mb in size, so download responsibly. The b/w "Tree Defects" (1983) photo guide is a poor and over contrasty scan which is really superceded by "A New Tree Biology".
Probably what really got practitioners going was the CODIT model in the "Compartmentalization" booklet with H.G. Marx (1977), the latter a Washington office editor, not a biologist. That is about 14 mb in Treesearch. Although really designed for foresters, that one captured the imagination of arborists. That is also in Treesearch. Most of his research articles are not in Treesearch (don't get me started on that) but let me know if there is a particular one you are looking for.
For brief articles for arborists, there are more than a few in Journal of Arboriculture and TCI.
The commercial, self-published route enable Al to avoid a heavy editorial hand, but he always showed his drafts around to get feedback before publication.
Hope this helps. Sorry if it's more than you wanted, but I think people should know about the public domain stuff as well as the commercial stuff.
"Pithy Points" or "Tree Myths" could be a good starting point as well. In one sense, it doesn't matter where to start as they are all linked together. I think Modern Arboriculture makes more sense if someone already has a grounding in Shigo's recurring themes.
For me, I started with the free Forest Service guides and articles. The really revelatory work on forest trees was his color "Photo Guide" (with E vH. Larson, 1969). He had to compromise some with the language to make it consistent with the FS of the day (that's what Mr. Larson was for). At that time, urban forestry and tree care was really not on his mind. The Photo Guide is available for free download. Search on "Shigo" as author at http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/. Be aware the the file is 26 mb in size, so download responsibly. The b/w "Tree Defects" (1983) photo guide is a poor and over contrasty scan which is really superceded by "A New Tree Biology".
Probably what really got practitioners going was the CODIT model in the "Compartmentalization" booklet with H.G. Marx (1977), the latter a Washington office editor, not a biologist. That is about 14 mb in Treesearch. Although really designed for foresters, that one captured the imagination of arborists. That is also in Treesearch. Most of his research articles are not in Treesearch (don't get me started on that) but let me know if there is a particular one you are looking for.
For brief articles for arborists, there are more than a few in Journal of Arboriculture and TCI.
The commercial, self-published route enable Al to avoid a heavy editorial hand, but he always showed his drafts around to get feedback before publication.
Hope this helps. Sorry if it's more than you wanted, but I think people should know about the public domain stuff as well as the commercial stuff.
macswan
Been here a while
- Location
- Champlain Valley, VT
I started with modern arboriculture and it was difficult to comprehend.i agree that Modern tree biology is probably the best bet.
I love modern arboriculture, it was just tough to wrap my dome around at first
I love modern arboriculture, it was just tough to wrap my dome around at first
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Thanks again KevinT,
How wonderful to read the 1985 paper on hollows for habitat: http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/newtown_square/publications/technical_reports/pdfs/scanned/gtr101.pdf
Pages 18-19 have mgt tips that i heard in Australia 3 years ago, where they sounded really cutting-edge to me! Nothing new under the sun, eh?
Question about hypoxylon as discussed here: http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/newtown_square/publications/research_papers/pdfs/scanned/rp43.pdf ... how common was the concept of endophyticism/endophytosis/ fungi existing latent within the undamaged tree, back then? From what I read in Schwarze et al, and observe in patches popping out of strained trees, fungi like hypoxylon are just hanging out inside the tree until the tree system weakens. Only then do they start colonising tissue by engaging in perthotrophy. No wounding involved. How does this process influence USFS research today?
O and KevinS, get A New Tree Biology + Dictionary! It changed my life in 1986, and still opens my mind when I read it in 2014. Nodal pruning (aka leaving 'stubs') and other techniques that seem to violate "Rules" are in there, revealing that many of our oversimplified "Rules" come from Cliff's-Notes-type shortcuts taken from Shigo's extraordinary thinking and work.
How wonderful to read the 1985 paper on hollows for habitat: http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/newtown_square/publications/technical_reports/pdfs/scanned/gtr101.pdf
Pages 18-19 have mgt tips that i heard in Australia 3 years ago, where they sounded really cutting-edge to me! Nothing new under the sun, eh?
Question about hypoxylon as discussed here: http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/newtown_square/publications/research_papers/pdfs/scanned/rp43.pdf ... how common was the concept of endophyticism/endophytosis/ fungi existing latent within the undamaged tree, back then? From what I read in Schwarze et al, and observe in patches popping out of strained trees, fungi like hypoxylon are just hanging out inside the tree until the tree system weakens. Only then do they start colonising tissue by engaging in perthotrophy. No wounding involved. How does this process influence USFS research today?
O and KevinS, get A New Tree Biology + Dictionary! It changed my life in 1986, and still opens my mind when I read it in 2014. Nodal pruning (aka leaving 'stubs') and other techniques that seem to violate "Rules" are in there, revealing that many of our oversimplified "Rules" come from Cliff's-Notes-type shortcuts taken from Shigo's extraordinary thinking and work.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
Arboriculture may never again see the likes of such a pivotal figure as Alex Shigo.
I'll never forget him.
I'll never forget him.
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Agreed!
Thanks it's great I didn't know what I wanted so a great response like this is always great. That is going to take me a while to get through but that's great.
TreeLogic
Branched out member
- Location
- Coastal SC
Just don't loan 'em period. Not the important ones anyway. I've learned the hard way.
KTSmith
Branched out member
- Location
- Maine, New Hampshire
To respond to a couple of Guy's comments:
The second paper for which you provide the link, published in 1965, was a cornerstone to Alex's thinking, that a succession and a community of microorganisms were involved in the discoloration and decay processes in living trees. Parts of the same story were published in proceedings volumes and other "gray" literature.
Be careful with some of those terms, or at least be aware that plant pathologists use them in specialized ways. No specialist would refer to the pioneer and wood decay fungi as "endophytes" when they are decaying wood, even if they are within the plant. Trees can have endophytes, but then those would likely be infections internal to leaves. My doctoral work was all about the ergot family of fungi (Clavicipitacease) that run the full spectrum from almost wholly endophytic to wholly epiphytic (on grasses). My work on the latter is still, I think, the only solid documetation of a wholly epiphytic (no haustoria) wholly biotrophic (in nature) fungus. I say all of that just as a reminder of specialized uses of the term.
Lynne Boddy at the University of Cardiff (very productive and splendid forest fungus ecologist) did some great work in the 1980's on latent infections in wood, but she presented her and her colleagues work as oppositional to Shigo. I went to Cardiff to discuss my view that her latent infections were "our" compartmentalized infections. (I also worked out the details of the divorce from my first wife on that trip, but that's another story). After a nice lunch and discussion with Lynne and her students, she said "So that's what you mean by compartmentalization, I have no trouble with that!" Or that's how I remember the story. I drew out some of that in my Compartmentalization Today article (2006, I think). And If I've misremembered the story, I hope she corrects me! We do exchange notes from time to time.
I suppose my biggest quibble with your last post, Guy, is the remark "no wounding involved". Why do you say that? The decay fungi, pioneers, bacteria, etc. all gain entry through wounds. They might be quite small, say broken off buds and leaf traces or even nectaries as the fire blight bacterium does. That was Lynne's problem too. She thought wounds mean something the size of a snowplow or backhoe injury. Sure, roots can be wounded and be portals of entry as well. With the asco's in the Xylariaceae and wood decay basidios, small spores or even yeast-like cells can divide off as asexual stages and be small enough to move through vessels and tracheids. Some are probaly small enough (the bacteria cerainly are) to cross open pit fields in adjacent tracheids. So an injury and infection upstream can lead to pockets of latent or active infection downstream! So yes, Francis has it right, that infections can be latent and then "pop out" when condition are right. The portal of entry for the initial infection was still likely wound, large or small, nearby or separated in time and space.
The second paper for which you provide the link, published in 1965, was a cornerstone to Alex's thinking, that a succession and a community of microorganisms were involved in the discoloration and decay processes in living trees. Parts of the same story were published in proceedings volumes and other "gray" literature.
Be careful with some of those terms, or at least be aware that plant pathologists use them in specialized ways. No specialist would refer to the pioneer and wood decay fungi as "endophytes" when they are decaying wood, even if they are within the plant. Trees can have endophytes, but then those would likely be infections internal to leaves. My doctoral work was all about the ergot family of fungi (Clavicipitacease) that run the full spectrum from almost wholly endophytic to wholly epiphytic (on grasses). My work on the latter is still, I think, the only solid documetation of a wholly epiphytic (no haustoria) wholly biotrophic (in nature) fungus. I say all of that just as a reminder of specialized uses of the term.
Lynne Boddy at the University of Cardiff (very productive and splendid forest fungus ecologist) did some great work in the 1980's on latent infections in wood, but she presented her and her colleagues work as oppositional to Shigo. I went to Cardiff to discuss my view that her latent infections were "our" compartmentalized infections. (I also worked out the details of the divorce from my first wife on that trip, but that's another story). After a nice lunch and discussion with Lynne and her students, she said "So that's what you mean by compartmentalization, I have no trouble with that!" Or that's how I remember the story. I drew out some of that in my Compartmentalization Today article (2006, I think). And If I've misremembered the story, I hope she corrects me! We do exchange notes from time to time.
I suppose my biggest quibble with your last post, Guy, is the remark "no wounding involved". Why do you say that? The decay fungi, pioneers, bacteria, etc. all gain entry through wounds. They might be quite small, say broken off buds and leaf traces or even nectaries as the fire blight bacterium does. That was Lynne's problem too. She thought wounds mean something the size of a snowplow or backhoe injury. Sure, roots can be wounded and be portals of entry as well. With the asco's in the Xylariaceae and wood decay basidios, small spores or even yeast-like cells can divide off as asexual stages and be small enough to move through vessels and tracheids. Some are probaly small enough (the bacteria cerainly are) to cross open pit fields in adjacent tracheids. So an injury and infection upstream can lead to pockets of latent or active infection downstream! So yes, Francis has it right, that infections can be latent and then "pop out" when condition are right. The portal of entry for the initial infection was still likely wound, large or small, nearby or separated in time and space.
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- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Just don't loan 'em period. Not the important ones anyway. I've learned the hard way.
My signed copy of ANTB disappeared years ago. Taking the four day class at the Minnesota Landscape Arboretum in the early/mid 80's was transformational. When I couldn't find the book I bought another but it wasn't the same.
A couple of months ago my brother told me that my original had been residing in his library. What a relief!
A good tip that I picked up was to take a picture of any book or tool that's lent held up by the face of the borrower. File that away like a rental agreement in case you need to track the goods later.
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