SHERRILLtree and TreeStuff.com announce Fallen Families Fund

Wait, okay?
Exactly how is this organized? How is it determined what money goes to what beneficiary? There are a lot of bills that haven't been paid because of people failing to prevent ultimately preventable accidents.
Insurance for both death and disability exist already.
Deevo, bud, I'm sorry to disagree (because I hate jerks who have no idea what skilled labor or science are and cause people to look at me funny when I say I'm an arborist, maybe even after I explain some of the differences between us and some rednecks, just because they've met a tree man before.), but there's a lot of hard workers and good men who don't know their dick from a Pinus, and furthermore we were all one of them before we learned better. You can't exclude the majority just because they die for less of an honorable cause than you'd like.

There can't be enough money to help them all even a little. What is this? 6k from an event? That is like a third of an underpaid ground hand's salary. What is that going to do for the 100+ families who are missing a loved one (and a wage-earner) just from casualties in this country this year?
How about the ones from last year? Or the year before? If they didn't bounce back quickly enough then that's their problem?

This means well. I know it does, but it's responding to a symptom.
You should pump every dollar into paying for people to become educated on safe work practices.
THAT would make an appreciable difference, if only to the men who learn and the crews they work with.
You guys had some deal going on with NATS when there was the standard "intro to advanced ect." class here.
Donate one of those guy's salaries who is down for it and have him just teach.
Fuck, use it to pay for me to get whatever certifications I need to teach, and I'll go teach free safety classes one weekend every month.

Throwing money at people doesn't make men less dead.
 
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SomethingWitty said:
Wait, okay?
Exactly how is this organized? How is it determined what money goes to what beneficiary? There are a lot of bills that haven't been paid because of people failing to prevent ultimately preventable accidents.
Insurance for both death and disability exist already.
Deevo, bud, I'm sorry to disagree (because I hate jerks who have no idea what skilled labor or science are and cause people to look at me funny when I say I'm an arborist, maybe even after I explain some of the differences between us and some rednecks, just because they've met a tree man before.), but there's a lot of hard workers and good men who don't know their dick from a Pinus, and furthermore we were all one of them before we learned better. You can't exclude the majority just because they die for less of an honorable cause than you'd like.

There can't be enough money to help them all even a little. What is this? 6k from an event? That is like a third of an underpaid ground hand's salary. What is that going to do for the 100+ families who are missing a loved one (and a wage-earner) just from casualties in this country this year?
How about the ones from last year? Or the year before? If they didn't bounce back quickly enough then that's their problem?

This means well. I know it does, but it's responding to a symptom.
You should pump every dollar into paying for people to become educated on safe work practices.
THAT would make an appreciable difference, if only to the men who learn and the crews they work with.
You guys had some deal going on with NATS when there was the standard "intro to advanced ect." class here.
Donate one of those guy's salaries who is down for it and have him just teach.
Fuck, use it to pay for me to get whatever certifications I need to teach, and I'll go teach free safety classes one weekend every month.

Throwing money at people doesn't make men less dead.
Click to expand...

You’ve got a lot of good points in there. Although I see it a little differently. They have set up another avenue for funds to be available for those hurting. This is something they are doing and donating their time and money to provide. Now of course 6k is hardly anything when it comes to how much is actually needed, but this was the first event that they organized to contribute to this fund. This is new. Hardly anyone has heard of it, and they were still able to raise money. They sold their own goods to make this happen, donating their own time to further this initiative. This is just the start as they build the endowment...hopefully this will continue to grow to the point where the endowment will be making money that could significantly help those in need.

I agree there are other issues at hand, but why scoff at the attempts of others who are trying to help where they see a need.

There are plenty of instances where insurance doesn’t pay for the whole picture. And families or the victim are left with crippling debt with no where to turn for help.

I applaud their efforts and ability to use their status to reach people to effect this change and actually make a dent in an industry that doesn’t have this sort of infrastructure set up already.

Do we need more safety awareness and training? You bet. Like I said, you’ve brought up some good points, but this is something they feel strongly enough to dedicate a huge amount of resources to and I think that we should support and respect their intentions.
 
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Maybe Treeestuff and Sherrill should do a buy back for the Cornell Saddle they ousted. The seller can have the option to donate that money back. @bonner1040 Wanna safe face even more. This will make you look really great to whoever your desperately trying to hold on to.
 
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John_KAYS said:
You’ve got a lot of good points in there. Although I see it a little differently. They have set up another avenue for funds to be available for those hurting. This is something they are doing and donating their time and money to provide. Now of course 6k is hardly anything when it comes to how much is actually needed, but this was the first event that they organized to contribute to this fund. This is new. Hardly anyone has heard of it, and they were still able to raise money. They sold their own goods to make this happen, donating their own time to further this initiative. This is just the start as they build the endowment...hopefully this will continue to grow to the point where the endowment will be making money that could significantly help those in need.

I agree there are other issues at hand, but why scoff at the attempts of others who are trying to help where they see a need.

There are plenty of instances where insurance doesn’t pay for the whole picture. And families or the victim are left with crippling debt with no where to turn for help.

I applaud their efforts and ability to use their status to reach people to effect this change and actually make a dent in an industry that doesn’t have this sort of infrastructure set up already.

Do we need more safety awareness and training? You bet. Like I said, you’ve brought up some good points, but this is something they feel strongly enough to dedicate a huge amount of resources to and I think that we should support and respect their intentions.
Click to expand...

That is well said, but you should note that I am rather uncharacteristically in the process of respecting their intentions. If I didn't dig their intentions (and resources!) I wouldn't be trying to convince anyone that they'd be better served if redirected.
Unfortunately, intentions alone don't accomplish much. I'm not trying to scoff at their attempts, I'm trying to help some men with much more influence than I have to have a little bit of insight; to take in the big picture. All it takes is one generation to shift our industry as a whole to a level of safety and professionalism that can hardly be fathomed in our current predicament.
Not being safe is what has done the damage to those people that the fund helps. It will never grow enough to be more than a small bandaid on a family, be it one family or 10000.
Even millions of free dollars making people's lives less demanding can't replace a brother or a husband or a father.
Or even a friend or peer.
If the program even had a partner program that donated education I'd be more content, because it is, in principle, a charitable service that nobody wants a need for. It fixes nothing, it only gives some dollars to some people (that haven't been specified yet, nor what amount, nor for what precise purposes).
It is harder to get people to donate to education, I get that. I even get why. It doesn't matter, though.
It's not instant enough. That's exactly what this is: instant charitable gratification. You know that your dollars are going to "help some poor widow woman" like they used to do directly by bringing extra food from harvest or slaughter and it kept her kids fed. It is a proper thing to do. But there is a difference here. That difference is that the ways that these workers are being killed is something simple that we can attack. It could mean that the people who have never met an individual might have to throw some of their faceless, nameless dollars somewhere different, but it would do more good by keeping somebody's son alive. The people who organize, the people who donate, and the people who this is for all fail to understand that the suffering that is happening now was equally preventable simply by starting to really address the issue earlier! The priority here sould be as urgent as anything ever. So urgent and important. I mean, I see the beginnings of a resourceful organization that will probably pick up steam because it does a feel-good thing, but it's still paddling in a canoe that's on the bank. It doesn't change anything except for where some of the gravel is sitting.

All you woman/feminist buzzers, please understand the gender bias in my writing is mostly based on the actual ratio of male to female tree workers, and the rest is simply that it becomes way overcomplicated when every pronoun needs a sidebar. Apologies.
 
Very true! I think what you are getting at is the key. I just thought that this fund was a step in that direction and generous for them to spend their time doing.

I see what you are saying that this sort of fund would almost allow individuals to almost take more risks with their safety, because their is this bandaid waiting for them. Like how unemployment aids encourage unemployment.

I would love to see our industry get more safe, but the numbers in that equation are so much more massive.

I guess what I had trouble with was the feeling like they were being attacked for their effort of trying to do something right. I feel like that won’t encourage any change. Thanks for all the thoughts on this matter. Good stuff.
 
First they profit from gear sold to people who have no business doing tree work
Oh wait, they partner and profit with training companies to train these poor folk. Trainees with no mentorship or plan to keep them alive.
Now they expect us to help pay/donate to keep their profit machine and Fund the injured and dead.

It's pure corruption.Greedy and dishonest
Get on/inline suckers.


Might think differently if they worked with other groups, agencies, government, worker disability groups, manufactures, retailers etc
BUT. O no
It gotta be the mighty Sherrill to the rescue.
Disgraceful who do they think they are?
They think we are a bunch of suckers.

DON'T BE A SUCKER?
 
John_KAYS said:
Very true! I think what you are getting at is the key. I just thought that this fund was a step in that direction and generous for them to spend their time doing.

I see what you are saying that this sort of fund would almost allow individuals to almost take more risks with their safety, because their is this bandaid waiting for them. Like how unemployment aids encourage unemployment.

I would love to see our industry get more safe, but the numbers in that equation are so much more massive.

I guess what I had trouble with was the feeling like they were being attacked for their effort of trying to do something right. I feel like that won’t encourage any change. Thanks for all the thoughts on this matter. Good stuff.
Click to expand...
Thank you. You're feeling me now.

RopeShield said:
First they profit from gear sold to people who have no business doing tree work
Oh wait, they partner and profit with training companies to train these poor folk. Trainees with no mentorship or plan to keep them alive.
Now they expect us to help pay/donate to keep their profit machine and Fund the injured and dead.

It's pure corruption.Greedy and dishonest
Get on/inline suckers.


Might think differently if they worked with other groups, agencies, government, worker disability groups, manufactures, retailers etc
BUT. O no
It gotta be the mighty Sherrill to the rescue.
Disgraceful who do they think they are?
They think we are a bunch of suckers.

DON'T BE A SUCKER?
Click to expand...
That's still prickish, but it is at least explaining your point. Thank you. Being a prick with something to say is worlds better than just being a prick.
 
just take some time to think.
Analytically or intuitively We help trees to grow to be strong and long lived for generations.
Industry ass a whole maims and injures.

Hate what this industry is and fully explain it to my clients, apprentices and anyone cares to listen.
We do our best to be a positive contributor in our life and work.

This shit smells I don't have to like I just pray one day a real leader can be the change the industry really needs to prevent fellows from dieng.
 
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I read it, but I'm curious about solutions. If selling gear to just anyone contributes to the unsafe culture at large, then how do you propose distributors choose who gets gear?
 
RopeShield said:
just take some time to think.
Analytically or intuitively We help trees to grow to be strong and long lived for generations.
Sherrilltree kills, maims and injures.
Should be said for the industry as a whole.
Hate what this industry is and fully explain it to my clients, apprentices and anyone cares to listen.
We do our best to be a positive contributor in our life and work.

This shit smells I don't have to like I just pray one day a real leader can be the change the industry really needs to prevent fellows from dieng.
Click to expand...





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RopeShield said:
Sherrilltree kills, maims and injures.
Click to expand...

Thomas, I don’t intend to answer to your negative and selatious rants. Having served and interacted with professional arborists from around the globe for over 3 decades, I’ve apparently made a few unintended enemies, some of whom I respect.

A few weeks ago, after exchanging pleasantries on Tbuzz (with you and your friend), I extended an olive branch publicly. I invited Mr. Cox to call me if he had something legitimate to discuss. Two or more of his recollections were either inaccurate, or made up by time and resentment. I wasn’t even at the company during some of the time he discussed.

From you I received the following unsolicited pm, and thanked you for the offer;

Hi Tobe
All is forgotten and forgiven.
Let's move forward.
You had said in the past the RopeShield is good idea.
Other prominent arbclimbers have also and use it.
What do you think?
I want to be a trusted partner and friend. To have someone I can trust and share my other ideas.
I am willing to publicly denounce the use of the RopeKnight as a throw weight. Also would like to donate
A percentage of sales to worthy cause Arbclimber scholarship or the like.
It's important to me we feel good about this whole experience and shines a warm and bright light on the good Sherrilltree is.
Thomas

My invite to Paul (and you) remains open if you care to talk by phone or face to face, like the men I’m sure you are. I’m outdoors all this week but can be reached at home in the evening. 336-294-0010

“You can always tell the leaders by the arrows in their back.” Author unknown
 
You are conflating the issue Tobe. What is your response to the issue at hand? I am happy to talk about the merits of a valuable tool. However we are discussing Fallen Families and valid concerns by members here. Are you willing to stay on topic and explain and address these objections?. Give these members some credit for having an informed opinion. I do my best to seperate the two issues. Thank you
RopeShield said:
First they profit from gear sold to people who have no business doing tree work
Oh wait, they partner and profit with training companies to train these poor folk. Trainees with no mentorship or plan to keep them alive.
Now they expect us to help pay/donate to keep their profit machine and Fund the injured and dead.

It's pure corruption.Greedy and dishonest
Get on/inline suckers.


Might think differently if they worked with other groups, agencies, government, worker disability groups, manufactures, retailers etc
BUT. O no
It gotta be the mighty Sherrill to the rescue.
Disgraceful who do they think they are?
They think we are a bunch of suckers.

DON'T BE A SUCKER?
Click to expand...
 
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