Setting retaining lines on leaning trees

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Watched Murphs video and this one came up on the side bar, thought it related well and has some good visuals as to what this discussion seems to focus on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe8_L-0_Fso

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He does a nice job of explaining the theory of the adjusted gun technique... The standard recommendation for adjusting the gun is to aim 1.5x the distance you want to cover.. SO if you need to drop the tree 10' to the side in order to compensate for side lean, aim 15'.. by the time the hinge fails and the gravity pulls to the side you just MIGHT get it to the lay...

Good luck with that though...

So many variables.. I have combined the adjusted gun with the tapered hinge many times.. With decent results..
 
I was looking more at when he demonstrated the retaining line. Sometimes it is hard to visualize what people talk about on here and I thought the demonstration was good. I usually employ a tapered hinge with multiple retaining lines.
 
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Watched Murphs video and this one came up on the side bar, thought it related well and has some good visuals as to what this discussion seems to focus on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe8_L-0_Fso

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He does a nice job of explaining the theory of the adjusted gun technique...

1. The standard recommendation for adjusting the gun is to aim 1.5x the distance you want to cover..

SO if you need to drop the tree 10' to the side in order to compensate for side lean, aim 15'..

Good luck with that though...

So many variables.. I have combined the adjusted gun with the tapered hinge many times.. With decent results..

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1. Where have you heard this? In what document?

I've used the adjusted notch technique for years with very good results.
We had a tree (Boxelder-Acer negundo) with 14 feet of side lean. Adjusted the notch 14 feet in the opposite direction and hit the target dead on. Pull line was in line with the notch.
Wind, weight distribution, soundness of wood and tree species are variables to consider.
 
Norm, Soren Erickson who invented the GOL (Game Of Logging) documented this in his teachings back in the late 1980's while he was giving logging classes here on the East Coast.

I started out as a logger first and when I got certified as a logger here in NH, we had found by then that the 1.5x distance actually overguns the tree, so we opted for 1.0x the distance, just as you do.

I still actually prefer to use a combo tapered hinge/adjusted gun tech., unless I'm in really tight areas, where I'll also employ a side tension/hold line.
 
Once again ladies and gentlemen... notice the difference between loggers and suburban arborists...

In suburban situations you get a lot more lean in trees reaching for light over the "fill in the blank"...

how much lean/weight and what kind of holding strength in that species is going to make any formula a starting point only... other factors include how much pull and therefore how thick the hinge can be left..
 
Agreed Daniel, comparing loggers to arborists, is like comparing apples to oranges, so I usually don’t even try.

I never once used a side tensioning line while logging. No big deal if the tree got hung up, as we could just hook the skidder winch line to it and pull it down. In the urban environment, that same tree would more than likely get a side tension line on it, as well as a tapered hinge. Don’t even need the adjusted gun technique if you have a good perpendicular holding line to the lay, without any forward obstructions to the line.

This discussion reminds me of the ones that we used to have with our former Aussie Buzz member many years ago :)
 
This is a good discussion. Ekka's vid was pretty informative.

Murph, not sure if you were using the 1.5 ratio in your 1st video here, but it appeared you overgunned, as you missed your landing logs. Also, shouldn't your face have been more horizontally lined up instead of square to the growth of the trunk? Douglas Dent's book (Professional Timber Falling) taught me that bottom edge of the face and the back cut should be as horizontal as possible. FWIW.

Sounded like the crew was trying to get your attention as you started the back cut. Reminded me, I gotta order some whistles...
 
I was 0.0 ... the retainer line did all the work, right to the ground...

and no I didn't miss the padding logs... the logs that were closest to the camera were protecting a drain vent... the cone was actually on the pipe. so they were not a target...

And yes, one of my old crew members is like a mother.. always watching everyone for safety.. He didn't like me standing on the "bad side" of the tree to make the back cut.. Of course I was only starting from a good position to set the height of the backcut..

And I often like to cut the notch level as per Dent's recommendation, but in this case, I thought it was going to be easier to keep the trees movement on the hinge perpendicular to the retainer line with a hinge that was perpendicular to the trunk..

I didn't really think about it at the time.. mostly just cut it on instinct... hit the grass so I guess it turned out OK..
 
fair enough. i cant tell everything from a vid so i was speculating.

"one of my old crew members is like a mother.."
better to have an overprotective crew member than vice versa.

"And I often like to cut the notch level as per Dent's recommendation, but in this case, I thought it was going to be easier to keep the trees movement on the hinge perpendicular to the retainer line with a hinge that was perpendicular to the trunk.. "
this brings up a good point - are there are times when it's better to break the horizontal rule, and stay more square to the trunk growth? something I've always wondered.
 
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"one of my old crew members is like a mother.."
better to have an overprotective crew member than vice versa.

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You got that right... He ran my ropes and was in complete charge of the DZ.. No one moved in without his say so.. I slept like a baby..
 
Just used the ground anchor system yesterday for the first time to set a retainer line... Great system.. inspires a lot of confidence, which is crucial... Best $75 spent in a long time..

White pine with a strong side lean away from the house, BUT towards the neighbor's shrubs.. I didn't get a chance to test the ground anchor system prior to using it.. If the tree would have been leaning towards the house, I would have taken the time.. depends on how deep you drive the stakes and soil conditions.. I AM guessing the piece will hold 1500-3000 lbs... maybe more...

Will post pics later..
 
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