What do you do when your sales staff are messing up on quotes for jobs? What do you do when they miss hazards of a job? What do you do when they don't understand what equipment can do? What training techniques do you use to remedy this kind of a situation at your company? Sometimes I don't even know if they are on the same planet. The normal means of communicating these issues by telling the salesmen at morning meetings is not working.
Salesmen missing the mark
- Thread starter Altreeist
- Start date
jim454
Participating member
- Location
- The land of Utopia
I'd have them occasionally work with the crew, might help with some of the problems.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
Have the crew occasionally do sales, might help with some of the problems.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
[ QUOTE ]
I'd have them occasionally work with the crew, might help with some of the problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Have the crew occasionally do sales, might help with some of the problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
Awesome paradox. I think both are valid statements.
Observation:Salesmen seem to promise the moon to potential customers. Which, can put a lot of pressure on the crew.
My solution:
Have them haul brush for 1 week per bad call.
I'd have them occasionally work with the crew, might help with some of the problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Have the crew occasionally do sales, might help with some of the problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
Observation:Salesmen seem to promise the moon to potential customers. Which, can put a lot of pressure on the crew.
My solution:
Have them haul brush for 1 week per bad call.
- Location
- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
How do you pay them?
If by % on REVENUE they will underquote to at least get paid themselves. They win, you lose.
Getting sales is BAD if there is no PROFIT in the work.
You dont have to be a good salesman to sell cheap work.
They need to work harder to sell at higher prices, increasing Average Dollar Sale while maintaining/improving Conversion Rate.
If you pay a base plus % on PROFIT they get paid for bringing in PROFITABLE work, not just any work.
If by % on REVENUE they will underquote to at least get paid themselves. They win, you lose.
Getting sales is BAD if there is no PROFIT in the work.
You dont have to be a good salesman to sell cheap work.
They need to work harder to sell at higher prices, increasing Average Dollar Sale while maintaining/improving Conversion Rate.
If you pay a base plus % on PROFIT they get paid for bringing in PROFITABLE work, not just any work.
- Location
- Asheville,NC
dont point fingers......give info feedback
[ QUOTE ]
What do you do when your sales staff are messing up on quotes for jobs? What do you do when they miss hazards of a job? What do you do when they don't understand what equipment can do? What training techniques do you use to remedy this kind of a situation at your company? Sometimes I don't even know if they are on the same planet. The normal means of communicating these issues by telling the salesmen at morning meetings is not working.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's the crew's fault!!!!
Just kidding, just kidding.
But that's how it has been played at some of the bigger companies I worked at.
What do you do when your sales staff are messing up on quotes for jobs? What do you do when they miss hazards of a job? What do you do when they don't understand what equipment can do? What training techniques do you use to remedy this kind of a situation at your company? Sometimes I don't even know if they are on the same planet. The normal means of communicating these issues by telling the salesmen at morning meetings is not working.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's the crew's fault!!!!
Just kidding, just kidding.
But that's how it has been played at some of the bigger companies I worked at.
- Location
- Gibsons BC
"you bid too low!"
"you work too slow!"
"you work too slow!"
- Location
- Louisville, KY
All time associated with performing a job should be associated with that job. If a salesman's compensation includes commission at all, they will feel go-backs and inefficiencies in their pocket.
Tr33Climb3r
Participating member
- Location
- Wisconsin
[ QUOTE ]
I'd have them occasionally work with the crew, might help with some of the problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
this is what I would do as well.
I'd have them occasionally work with the crew, might help with some of the problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
this is what I would do as well.
Base your commission percentage on your rate of return (revenue per man hour). If your company's per man hour rate is $80, and the job comes in at $90, share a percentage of the overage... If the job comes in at $50 have a negative commission component. Therefore your salespeople are feeling the pinch just like the company.
We all look at jobs differently. I did residential sales everyday until 2 years ago. The jobs looked differently to me when I sold them than when somebody else does. My jobs were always priced right!!! (or were they?) It is very easy to be critical of sold jobs. Then it hit me one day... It is my job and the crew's job to "bring the work in profitably". I found that a lot of the jobs I looked at and went ???? we were still able to bring in profitably. It is very easy to shoot the salespeople!
We try to work more as a team. It is "productions" job to make rate. I worked for a very large tree service 12+ years ago. The VP tried to recruit me to come back a few years ago. He said the toughest position to fill for their company is "sales arborist".
We all look at jobs differently. I did residential sales everyday until 2 years ago. The jobs looked differently to me when I sold them than when somebody else does. My jobs were always priced right!!! (or were they?) It is very easy to be critical of sold jobs. Then it hit me one day... It is my job and the crew's job to "bring the work in profitably". I found that a lot of the jobs I looked at and went ???? we were still able to bring in profitably. It is very easy to shoot the salespeople!
We try to work more as a team. It is "productions" job to make rate. I worked for a very large tree service 12+ years ago. The VP tried to recruit me to come back a few years ago. He said the toughest position to fill for their company is "sales arborist".
- Location
- Overland Park, Kansas
Track equipment and man hour rates....We have a sliding scale....
for instance:
$90-100 per man hour = 10% commision
80-90 = 5%
70-80 = 2%
<70 = 0%
When it hits them in the pocket book they'll either get it right or move on....weed out the guys who can't sell....and reward the ones who can....
That said i see some companies who let just anyone who is a cert arborist do their sales...imo that's a mistake....Just bc you know trees doesn't mean you're a salesman....
for instance:
$90-100 per man hour = 10% commision
80-90 = 5%
70-80 = 2%
<70 = 0%
When it hits them in the pocket book they'll either get it right or move on....weed out the guys who can't sell....and reward the ones who can....
That said i see some companies who let just anyone who is a cert arborist do their sales...imo that's a mistake....Just bc you know trees doesn't mean you're a salesman....
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
The paradox is right!
When I sold treework for a company, not for MY company, I never could figure out which crew might get the job. One crew was super fast with no damage or return calls. that made my sale look profitable. Then, what happens when the clumsy slowpokes got one of my sales? Tanked my sale.
An example, I sold a job that I could have done by myself if I had my 20' Silky polesaw and a rake. The client was right there 'just in case'. the job would have taken me about an hour with cleanup. I sold it as a two person for an hour. When the sale made it to the field a three person crew was sent and it took the three of them 1.25 hours!!! When I brought this up to the sales manager he told me that I wouldn't get any commission because 'my' numbers didn't work out. That was the beginning of the end of sales for that company.
There is a constant battle between sales and production. Unless the big picture with lots of sales/production is analyzed it's challenging to see where to make changes. A powerful relational database program could show those patterns.
When I sold treework for a company, not for MY company, I never could figure out which crew might get the job. One crew was super fast with no damage or return calls. that made my sale look profitable. Then, what happens when the clumsy slowpokes got one of my sales? Tanked my sale.
An example, I sold a job that I could have done by myself if I had my 20' Silky polesaw and a rake. The client was right there 'just in case'. the job would have taken me about an hour with cleanup. I sold it as a two person for an hour. When the sale made it to the field a three person crew was sent and it took the three of them 1.25 hours!!! When I brought this up to the sales manager he told me that I wouldn't get any commission because 'my' numbers didn't work out. That was the beginning of the end of sales for that company.
There is a constant battle between sales and production. Unless the big picture with lots of sales/production is analyzed it's challenging to see where to make changes. A powerful relational database program could show those patterns.
- Location
- Everywhere
If you have never done the work, you don't need to be selling it!!!!
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
I'm a small owner/ operator with 1-2 employees. I bid and do all the work. I see the trees, plan the work, then work the plan.
I figure my rigging points, order of execution of work, etc.
Different people will work different ways. Maybe some more pics and notes from the sales person to the foreman might help. The foreman would at least have a heads up going into it, for maximum efficiency.
I, personally, can't imagine only selling without occasional on-the-crew time to know their abilities/ productivity/ etc, or at least checking in on the crew at work, or knowing how many crew-hours went into each bid job, allowing some calibration for the estimator.
Sorta like always trying to accurately judge weight on crane picks without ever doing them, or more simply, accurately cutting 16" firewood rounds without ever checking against a true 16" measure.
In the end, unless its hitting their pocketbook, they are not going to change. I like the commission/ compensation based on the estimated crew hours matching the estimated hours. I figure that their should be a bonus for the crew as well when they beat the estimator's hours while still doing a quality job, with no call-backs.
I figure my rigging points, order of execution of work, etc.
Different people will work different ways. Maybe some more pics and notes from the sales person to the foreman might help. The foreman would at least have a heads up going into it, for maximum efficiency.
I, personally, can't imagine only selling without occasional on-the-crew time to know their abilities/ productivity/ etc, or at least checking in on the crew at work, or knowing how many crew-hours went into each bid job, allowing some calibration for the estimator.
Sorta like always trying to accurately judge weight on crane picks without ever doing them, or more simply, accurately cutting 16" firewood rounds without ever checking against a true 16" measure.
In the end, unless its hitting their pocketbook, they are not going to change. I like the commission/ compensation based on the estimated crew hours matching the estimated hours. I figure that their should be a bonus for the crew as well when they beat the estimator's hours while still doing a quality job, with no call-backs.
- Location
- Gibsons BC
When I was at Davey Residential the salesman with the best returns told me his strategy was to bid with the expectation that the slowest crew would always end up doing the work (out of ~8 crews.)
He did have the luxury of a very large return client base and a good amount of charisma and talk.
He did have the luxury of a very large return client base and a good amount of charisma and talk.
Thanks for all the great suggestions. I just wanna see these guys succeed and not kill anyone doing it. I understand that sales is a hard job. Not bashing our salesmen, just want to help them to help the crews. We are definitely all in it together.
We deal with 3 territories, each having there own salesman. Our guys get paid on sliding scale based on profit. One territory is our bread and butter, right by the shop. The other two have 20 to 40 min. travel to get to the job. Should there be different scales for different territories? That may help so that all are "influenced" equally?
Thanks again.
We deal with 3 territories, each having there own salesman. Our guys get paid on sliding scale based on profit. One territory is our bread and butter, right by the shop. The other two have 20 to 40 min. travel to get to the job. Should there be different scales for different territories? That may help so that all are "influenced" equally?
Thanks again.
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
When a company gets large enough that there has to be multiple salesPERSONs, I think a structured compensation package is the way to go to keep sales in line with production and company profile.
Eg. A large multi-state/national tree service will value PHC services and large recurring contracts over straight tree work, and therefore will set quotas or goals for the salesperson to hit over time periods. These high profit PHC sales help defray the cost of keeping the other crews out in the field doing the necessary grunt work (all other tree care services) that has to be done to be a complete tree service. In this case, lower $ per man hour rates can be accepted, as long as the high profit services are being sold first and foremost (winter management retreats in the islands don't come cheap).
My personal opinion is that if there is someone selling treework solely to "line his pockets", not for the love of the craft or helping people appreciate the value of trees, then he is always going to miss the mark. Even worse if that person willfully remains ignorant of industry standards, modern arboricultural tools, and safety regulations. If I was in the position to fire an individual like that, I would do it in a heartbeat, and kindly request that he "go ahead and suck on my balls".
SZ
Eg. A large multi-state/national tree service will value PHC services and large recurring contracts over straight tree work, and therefore will set quotas or goals for the salesperson to hit over time periods. These high profit PHC sales help defray the cost of keeping the other crews out in the field doing the necessary grunt work (all other tree care services) that has to be done to be a complete tree service. In this case, lower $ per man hour rates can be accepted, as long as the high profit services are being sold first and foremost (winter management retreats in the islands don't come cheap).
My personal opinion is that if there is someone selling treework solely to "line his pockets", not for the love of the craft or helping people appreciate the value of trees, then he is always going to miss the mark. Even worse if that person willfully remains ignorant of industry standards, modern arboricultural tools, and safety regulations. If I was in the position to fire an individual like that, I would do it in a heartbeat, and kindly request that he "go ahead and suck on my balls".
SZ
- Location
- Frankfort, Kentucky
NICE!
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
[ QUOTE ]
When a company gets large enough that there has to be multiple salesPERSONs, I think a structured compensation package is the way to go to keep sales in line with production and company profile.
Eg. A large multi-state/national tree service will value PHC services and large recurring contracts over straight tree work, and therefore will set quotas or goals for the salesperson to hit over time periods. These high profit PHC sales help defray the cost of keeping the other crews out in the field doing the necessary grunt work (all other tree care services) that has to be done to be a complete tree service. In this case, lower $ per man hour rates can be accepted, as long as the high profit services are being sold first and foremost (winter management retreats in the islands don't come cheap).
My personal opinion is that if there is someone selling treework solely to "line his pockets", not for the love of the craft or helping people appreciate the value of trees, then he is always going to miss the mark. Even worse if that person willfully remains ignorant of industry standards, modern arboricultural tools, and safety regulations. If I was in the position to fire an individual like that, I would do it in a heartbeat, and kindly request that he "go ahead and suck on my balls".
SZ
[/ QUOTE ]
I second that one for sure
Love ya Bro. Scotty
When a company gets large enough that there has to be multiple salesPERSONs, I think a structured compensation package is the way to go to keep sales in line with production and company profile.
Eg. A large multi-state/national tree service will value PHC services and large recurring contracts over straight tree work, and therefore will set quotas or goals for the salesperson to hit over time periods. These high profit PHC sales help defray the cost of keeping the other crews out in the field doing the necessary grunt work (all other tree care services) that has to be done to be a complete tree service. In this case, lower $ per man hour rates can be accepted, as long as the high profit services are being sold first and foremost (winter management retreats in the islands don't come cheap).
My personal opinion is that if there is someone selling treework solely to "line his pockets", not for the love of the craft or helping people appreciate the value of trees, then he is always going to miss the mark. Even worse if that person willfully remains ignorant of industry standards, modern arboricultural tools, and safety regulations. If I was in the position to fire an individual like that, I would do it in a heartbeat, and kindly request that he "go ahead and suck on my balls".
SZ
[/ QUOTE ]
I second that one for sure
Love ya Bro. Scotty
New threads New posts
-
test
-
-
-
Fruit tree holding on by a thread, client wants to get another year out of it. Thoughts?- Started by climbingmonkey24
- Replies: 27
-
-
-
