Rope walking

Kevin

Kevin

Location
Ontario, Canada
I have been kicking around the idea of trying to make my pantin work as a simulated rope walker.
It would be set up as usual but I would add a rope with adjustable hitches at both ends to step into and add a rescue pulley on my saddle.
Check the attachment and let me know what you think.

Maybe a self tending pulley off the rope would be better to keep the stress off the climber?
 

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I'm not sure what advantage you would gain with that setup, Kevin. It seems to me that pushing down with your left foot would not give you any advance up the rope, just help you move your right foot up the line. For rope walking to be an improvement, I think you would want each step up, both left and right, to propel you upward. Or am I missing something else you wish to accomplish with this idea?
 
That's pretty much it.
Now my left leg isn't adding to the effort to advance and is hanging rather useless while the right leg does all the work.
I know you can use your left foot to push down on the right but I've tried that and it doesn't seem very efficient to me.
This is all theoretical at this point for me but I see it being used by others and it looks very efficient and quite fast.
I'm still not sure of the proper set up until I start trying it, maybe this weekend.
I'm not opposed to two foot ascenders if need be but I really don't want the chest harness.
 
If I understand the setup correctly you have a Frog System which is more of a sit/stand than a Ropewalker system. Look at the links that Ken posted, below, for a good understanding of the various ascent systems.
 
Good idea Tom.
I know I have seen this stuff in there but I always fail to remember.

The system I am speaking of resembles the system called the Double Bungee.
I first saw it in the Bogachiel Spruce DVD but it looked like the pulley was attached to a Gibbs ascender on the climbing rope.
Tobe had just set the line in the Spruce and while they were getting it set up another climber started up with this system in the tree next to it.
 
Kev,

Bro, i think the first drawing, would just have the un-cammed foot pulling up the Pantin foot at the expense of ~2x downpull on center D's(?) i would even suggest as "ON Rope" Site and book does a bungy to center to help pull that leg up, at the cost of only 1x down pull on center D's.

Your 2nd scenario i think would just put that down pull 2x on the hand cam. What if ya lost the 2X pulley element from the system. Run, stirrup from un cammed foot to hand cam on same side (shoulder high or so with leg extrended?) Now we have 2 seperate foot pedals for power, no real safety though! Need 2......seperate line from hand cam (or just tended frictin hitch); so that grab on rope serves 2 purposes, safety and power, Pantin gives power, but no safety count raised by it, so still only 1 Safety. Tended friction hitch at center D's could be 2nd, psoitive, lifeline worthy grab; you can also work both legs individually.

As Drill Seargeant barked trainees in "G.I. Jane"- "...You're going to war, always have a back-up; 2 is 1 and 1 is None"


That wouldn't give the doubled push of both legs, but more natural walk? But also the capacity for beating inertia better than double leg power or any 'frog' (push/stop/pull legs up/stop-> repeat) strategies; by taking out 2 stops, and having continuous motion carrying thru (with right style i think), so as to use inertia for , rather than against you as with stops in 'frog' type i think. i say, so you don't have to re-inertia-lize the system, in my whimsical, satirical mental pix.

i think that weight below center tie in doesn't bother ya, but the heavies and almost leveraged point (making mostleveraged load from pivot of center tie in - going up) is chest shoulders (fer climber's build at least). The fight to keep that centered over lift of legs can waste lots of energy, down the drain. Paying attention to technique or gear (chest harness/roller) to handle those mechanichs should be a great efficiency enhancer.

i found this as i was scurrying around an old link Tom sent out; i found this real neat breakdown from Bruce Smith's On Rope Catalog that shows for free these detailed systems seperated like in a Sherril catalog from his and Padgett's monumental "On Rope" vertical rope "bible" to so many rescuers, mountain, ice climbing, riggers, military etc.! A fairly cheap must have for really understanding the challenges of friction and camming systems and more, Sherrill/Search #16201.

i think it will puts forward a lot of terms of systems, and the assumed elements of those systems to be able to talk and be on same page etc.(not as bad a jargon as SWL your SRT but TITS ain't a PITA, just like in DdRT, See ANSI). This SRT stuff is a lot more invisionable, with systems drawn out, and them talking about choosing and maximizing a system to a specific body type even!!

The Same Site (On Rope) , has a list of Free 20 DownLoadable Guides to Working with Ropes inways that may be knew and stretch a lot of understandings. If ya couldn't a budget the book this round like me. (If it wasn't already here doggy eared), maybe ya can afford these; the price is certainly right!

This page from there claims "A Double Bungee RopeWalker is the Fastest and Most Efficient Rope Climbing System in the World" and displays it in clean itemized detail, along with apparently their 2nd pick , the Mitchell system. Both i think could deal better with inertia than better stop/start strategy.
 
Ken;
I think you might have what I was looking for.
Two separate systems in one.
I can already feel the rhythm!
Left foot/acc. cord to Kong above head, right foot with pantin, back up safety hitch.
Sherrill has this ...
TN28750.jpg

I assume Jerry, Mike, Tom and a few others are familiar with the system in the DVD.
 
Money-saving tip

Kevin, before you buy a strap like that, I reccomend just tying one out of thin (7mm?) cord first. See if the setup is for you. The straps are nicer/more comfortable, but if you end up drastically changing your setup (which is bound to happen when you are still getting the kinks worked out), expensive accessories may end up at the bottom of the toolbox for ever!

love
nick
 
Re: Money-saving tip

Nick has a point. I have a twenty-something dollar Petzl footstrap laying around here somewhere. I bought it over a year ago, tried it once for about 20 seconds and chunked it. Haven't touched it since, and my SRT methods have evolved in a different direction.
 
Re: Money-saving tip

Before I buy expensive, specialty, gear, I mock it up using cords. I've used recoil cord a lot. Its cheap, stiff and strong. For some light weight stirrups slip a piece of plastic tubing in and tie a bowline. Of course I wouldn't use the setup for body support :) Who knows though, I'll bet that cord is pretty strong...
 
Ken;
I tried the new system today and it was a huge improvement.
Kong over head attached to a loop runner down to the left foot.
Right foot with pantin.
Start off with left foot raised and Kong up as far as possible.
Step with left foot,raise right foot, advance Kong and raise left foot at the same time and continue.
Thanks for the help.
 
Great! i'd ask Tom about the safety of the ascendor giving out, as 1 safety, and taking the center tie/in prusik under it with it; leaving you "naked" (support wise)on the line, unless chest device or something else was on line to to interuppt that, placed between the 2 devices.

i believe we talked of the ascendor being a friction hitch or having a small prusik connected to the top of the ascendor; so that ascendor tends the hitch up; but upon failure the knot will catch it.

i didn't mean to buy anything either, i make test gear for a style, before buying it too. Another reason to learn splicing 3 strand i think! Also, loop runners have served many test situations as a cheap tool for me, always kept on hand.
 
I'm using my standard Distel below the Kong for life support.
The nice thing is, when you reach the top of your climb everything comes off as one assembly when you remove the Kong.
The only problem is the system is so efficient you don't want to stop when you reach the top let alone half way up!
I scrounged an old packsack buckle to form a closed loop at the boot...see attachment.
 

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Ken;
Here's another shot in the attachment.
The Kong has a back up safety, the light blue runner goes to my saddle, the other runner goes to my left boot.
Add a Distel to the rope plus the pantin and there's no way you are leaving the climbing rope by accident.
 

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Kevin,

Tell me about the snap that you're using to attach the hitch above the ascenders. It looks like a plain hardware store dog leash snap. If so, I hope that you realize that it shouldn't be counted on for personal support.

Also, the Pantin isn't meant to be counted as personal support either. Two reasons. The P wasn't designed as personal support because it doesn;t have a locking latch. More importantly, if you fall, you'll be left hanging upside down. Any persoanl support system should be attached to the front, center, support on your saddle.

My preferance for backups is to make them as parallel as possbile. It looks like your systme isbuilt in series or cascading. Attaching the upper hitch directly to your saddle would give you parallel redundancy. That way eithe the hitch or ascender could fail and you would still be attached in a more or less vertical position.

Heck, for all I know though, I might be reading your setup all wrong :)

Tom
 
Tom,
Go up a couple posts. Kevin said he was using his Distel attached directly to his saddle, below the Kong ascender. This is almost identical to the system I use except I do not use the extra hitch dogleashed above the ascender or the footstrap for the left foot. He is securely attached twice without the dogleash hitch or Pantin.

Not bad, Kevin. I tried a footstrap but didn't like it. I have the Petzl $24 footstrap sitting around here brand new somewhere.
 
Thanks for the interest in the system.
The dog snap is only there because I couldn't find anything better and I thought it would be better than nothing at all.
My idea is to have something that both works well and is efficient and safe.
I can drop the entire system quickly and bomb to the ground with the distel if need be.
I have the option of resting on the distel or the Kong, much better than what I was using and it allows me to utilize equipment I already have which is another plus.
After seeing Knut climbing with relative ease and good speed with his system it peaked my interest.
I realize the pantin isn't for life support but in combination with the rest of the system it still adds an element of security.
You can add a carabiner to the pantin to lock it but I prefer my strap modification.
I think this will work well but who knows what next year will bring!
 
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