Rope Walker Help
- Thread starter TreeLogic
- Start date
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
If I have my hands on the tree I dont need them on rope with my rope walker. I could ascend completely hands free but its an ab workout!
Using your hands to hold yourself upright isnt taxing.
Using your hands to hold yourself upright isnt taxing.
TreeLogic
Branched out member
- Location
- Coastal SC
Yeah, I just figured it'd be nice to be hands-free when you're passing a limb or something. And the dude just makes it look so easy.
I've seen that some of you use a hand ascender and some just grab the rope. Aside from gear-minimalism with grabbing the rope, any pros/cons?
I've seen that some of you use a hand ascender and some just grab the rope. Aside from gear-minimalism with grabbing the rope, any pros/cons?
That probably all depends on how much gear you can personally justify for each individual climb. I wouldn't know much about super long ascents. I might get 50' to 70' so I just go with nothing but my primary system.
These are all good questions and lots of good input from everyone, but in the end you need to figure out what you like for your situation. May as well start minimal and add gear as you desire. There's always 'TreeBay', too!
These are all good questions and lots of good input from everyone, but in the end you need to figure out what you like for your situation. May as well start minimal and add gear as you desire. There's always 'TreeBay', too!
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
Everyone has some great ideas to make a rope walker so I will throw mine in the ring.
Pretty much every ropewalker will have a bungee somewhere. I put mine over my neck, you could put it over your shoulder, run it between your legs, in a rope etc.
What I point out here is that by building adjustablity into the system, I am able to use what I'm already climbing with and make it hands free for walking up the tree and holding the trunk or limbs. Then easily switch back to using my hands and arms for long ascents, simply by adjusting the length of my tether. Key is one handed adjustablity in the tether and the foot loop.
Equipment used: Foot ascender, Bates foot loop, Unicender, adjustable tether made with Dyneema loop runner and Kong Duck.
Everything I normally climb with, nothing was added to make it a hands free walker.
Converting the gear I'm already using to a hands free rope walker.
.
Pretty much every ropewalker will have a bungee somewhere. I put mine over my neck, you could put it over your shoulder, run it between your legs, in a rope etc.
What I point out here is that by building adjustablity into the system, I am able to use what I'm already climbing with and make it hands free for walking up the tree and holding the trunk or limbs. Then easily switch back to using my hands and arms for long ascents, simply by adjusting the length of my tether. Key is one handed adjustablity in the tether and the foot loop.
Equipment used: Foot ascender, Bates foot loop, Unicender, adjustable tether made with Dyneema loop runner and Kong Duck.
Everything I normally climb with, nothing was added to make it a hands free walker.
Converting the gear I'm already using to a hands free rope walker.
.
That looks like a minimal gear system, YoYo. I intend to be constructive with the following critique...
It seems that stepping with the left foot (or stepping with both feet simultaneously) generates slack in your saddle's bridge system. Is that correct?
In other words, lifting your left foot will allow the HUT (holder-upper-thingy) to advance the Uni, yet slack will remain in your bridge connections until stepping with the right and lifting the left?
If so, my concern is gear alignment/orientation, not so much the short distance you could potentially "fall" back into your system. Ensuring that your connections will orient properly without help from you throughout repeated loading and unloading would be key.
I'm just reminded a bit of flop factor issues with certain base anchor systems, and the importance of proper orientation.
It seems that stepping with the left foot (or stepping with both feet simultaneously) generates slack in your saddle's bridge system. Is that correct?
In other words, lifting your left foot will allow the HUT (holder-upper-thingy) to advance the Uni, yet slack will remain in your bridge connections until stepping with the right and lifting the left?
If so, my concern is gear alignment/orientation, not so much the short distance you could potentially "fall" back into your system. Ensuring that your connections will orient properly without help from you throughout repeated loading and unloading would be key.
I'm just reminded a bit of flop factor issues with certain base anchor systems, and the importance of proper orientation.
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
[ QUOTE ]
That looks like a minimal gear system, YoYo. I intend to be constructive with the following critique...
.....
If so, my concern is gear alignment/orientation....
....Ensuring that your connections will orient properly without help from you throughout repeated loading and unloading would be key.
I'm just reminded a bit of flop factor issues with certain base anchor systems, and the importance of proper orientation.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks oceans,
First of all, critique and constructive criticism are always welcome, isn't that why we are here, to share ideas and improve on them or help others because we have an idea? If all a person heard was, "great idea", what would they benefit? Now negative criticism I think we get enough of elsewhere and if I want ridicule I can always go to another forum.
Your points are well taken, I just started using these tethers and you gave me some good thoughts to improve on them. Yes this is a minimal system because it is using the two points of my ascent system to walk without adding a third. When I do long ascents or just normal rope walk also using my hands, I'm am attached also at the bridge with a croll chest ascender and it is tended with my neck lanyard. When I start passing limbs or need my hands to maneuver I remove the neck lanyard from the croll, attache it to the Uni, adjust my tether and foot loop and start walking.
suppose I could add another HUT
I agree it is not a fall issue or the same as an out of reach and sight base anchor flop problem.
I look at flop as a management issue more than an elimination issue, kind of like stress, bound to get it, just have to manage it. The Zigzag is a prime example, even under specified conditions, had the flop been managed with a keeper, I don't thing that accident would have happened and everyone would still be zigging and zagging.
I have attached a link to a photo.
On the left when I was using my ABR tether I managed the flop with a ball lock carabiner, a keeper and self bonding silicon tape and a bungee.
On the right I have improved the new system securing the tether to the Uni and trapping the duck with keepers on both sides. As a note, the new Rook pulley I'm using on the bridge has built in grommets that securely hold the biner in place.
Again, thanks for the input! Although I'm pretty sure as soon as I get this all dialed in I'll be trying something else. (Wish I could be content DRT on a blakes hitch)
managing flop factor
.
That looks like a minimal gear system, YoYo. I intend to be constructive with the following critique...
.....
If so, my concern is gear alignment/orientation....
....Ensuring that your connections will orient properly without help from you throughout repeated loading and unloading would be key.
I'm just reminded a bit of flop factor issues with certain base anchor systems, and the importance of proper orientation.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks oceans,
First of all, critique and constructive criticism are always welcome, isn't that why we are here, to share ideas and improve on them or help others because we have an idea? If all a person heard was, "great idea", what would they benefit? Now negative criticism I think we get enough of elsewhere and if I want ridicule I can always go to another forum.
Your points are well taken, I just started using these tethers and you gave me some good thoughts to improve on them. Yes this is a minimal system because it is using the two points of my ascent system to walk without adding a third. When I do long ascents or just normal rope walk also using my hands, I'm am attached also at the bridge with a croll chest ascender and it is tended with my neck lanyard. When I start passing limbs or need my hands to maneuver I remove the neck lanyard from the croll, attache it to the Uni, adjust my tether and foot loop and start walking.
suppose I could add another HUT
I agree it is not a fall issue or the same as an out of reach and sight base anchor flop problem.
I look at flop as a management issue more than an elimination issue, kind of like stress, bound to get it, just have to manage it. The Zigzag is a prime example, even under specified conditions, had the flop been managed with a keeper, I don't thing that accident would have happened and everyone would still be zigging and zagging.
I have attached a link to a photo.
On the left when I was using my ABR tether I managed the flop with a ball lock carabiner, a keeper and self bonding silicon tape and a bungee.
On the right I have improved the new system securing the tether to the Uni and trapping the duck with keepers on both sides. As a note, the new Rook pulley I'm using on the bridge has built in grommets that securely hold the biner in place.
Again, thanks for the input! Although I'm pretty sure as soon as I get this all dialed in I'll be trying something else. (Wish I could be content DRT on a blakes hitch)
managing flop factor
.
- Location
- Long Island, New York
Richard,
I tried your suggestion with my setup (RW/VT Tresse). It works and greatly simplifies the setup. All that was needed were the following modifications:
-I have a dedicated lanyard normally used as a LOTS.
-I tied a figure8 knot right after where the LOTS comes over my shoulder (lengthening cord was needed)
-Girth-hitch the bungy above figure8 knot.
-Girth-hitch the other end of bungy to a small biner.
-The biner in turn is girth-hitched to the foot tether.
-For rope-walking, the biner is clipped to my hitch climber pulley.
Very simple setup !
HOWEVER, I find this setup has two problems for rope walking:
1 - Due to the slack when advancing the hitch, you lose about half of the advancement with this foot.
2 - I do not like the hitch sitting below eye level
I am sure this setup works much better with a Unicender. This was a great suggestion and I may consider buying one.
I tried your suggestion with my setup (RW/VT Tresse). It works and greatly simplifies the setup. All that was needed were the following modifications:
-I have a dedicated lanyard normally used as a LOTS.
-I tied a figure8 knot right after where the LOTS comes over my shoulder (lengthening cord was needed)
-Girth-hitch the bungy above figure8 knot.
-Girth-hitch the other end of bungy to a small biner.
-The biner in turn is girth-hitched to the foot tether.
-For rope-walking, the biner is clipped to my hitch climber pulley.
Very simple setup !
HOWEVER, I find this setup has two problems for rope walking:
1 - Due to the slack when advancing the hitch, you lose about half of the advancement with this foot.
2 - I do not like the hitch sitting below eye level
I am sure this setup works much better with a Unicender. This was a great suggestion and I may consider buying one.
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
[ QUOTE ]
Richard,
Very simple setup !
HOWEVER, I find this setup has two problems for rope walking:
1 - Due to the slack when advancing the hitch, you lose about half of the advancement with this foot.
2 - I do not like the hitch sitting below eye level
I am sure this setup works much better with a Unicender. This was a great suggestion and I may consider buying one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, it does work best with the Uni, it has no set-back.
One thought is to try a distil friction hitch for the ascent, (short cord) to me it has less sit-back and is more compact, then switch back to your V.T for a smooth working hitch and smooth descent.
As oceans said, caution with the flop and make sure in your case, nothing impedes your hitch.
Richard,
Very simple setup !
HOWEVER, I find this setup has two problems for rope walking:
1 - Due to the slack when advancing the hitch, you lose about half of the advancement with this foot.
2 - I do not like the hitch sitting below eye level
I am sure this setup works much better with a Unicender. This was a great suggestion and I may consider buying one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, it does work best with the Uni, it has no set-back.
One thought is to try a distil friction hitch for the ascent, (short cord) to me it has less sit-back and is more compact, then switch back to your V.T for a smooth working hitch and smooth descent.
As oceans said, caution with the flop and make sure in your case, nothing impedes your hitch.
- Location
- Long Island, New York
Richard,
Yes, the Distel works better with almost no setback. I also tried the exact earlier setup, with the exception of swapping out the biner for a Petzl Basic. No other changes and no setback.
There are still WAY TOO MANY PARTS in current SRT Rope Walking setups:
3 to 4 types of ascent devices ie. Uni, foot ascender, Croll, friction hitch, RW, Kong Duck, etc.
Hitch Pulley
3 to 4 biners
if using RW, then some type of RW tether
Bungy
foot tether
LOTS
With the Uni/foot ascender, you only need 3 ascent devices, but there are still way too many parts in constructing this.
The Design Engineer in me tells me an optimal setup would only need 2 ascent devices, 2 biners, and 2 foot tethers.
Any thoughts ?
-Michael
Yes, the Distel works better with almost no setback. I also tried the exact earlier setup, with the exception of swapping out the biner for a Petzl Basic. No other changes and no setback.
There are still WAY TOO MANY PARTS in current SRT Rope Walking setups:
3 to 4 types of ascent devices ie. Uni, foot ascender, Croll, friction hitch, RW, Kong Duck, etc.
Hitch Pulley
3 to 4 biners
if using RW, then some type of RW tether
Bungy
foot tether
LOTS
With the Uni/foot ascender, you only need 3 ascent devices, but there are still way too many parts in constructing this.
The Design Engineer in me tells me an optimal setup would only need 2 ascent devices, 2 biners, and 2 foot tethers.
Any thoughts ?
-Michael
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
Have you watched the HAAS video.
All I have is harness, hitch hiker, pantin, HAAS, LOTS
Thats it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m49BBFJN5lA
All I have is harness, hitch hiker, pantin, HAAS, LOTS
Thats it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m49BBFJN5lA
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
[ QUOTE ]
Have you watched the HAAS video.
All I have is harness, hitch hiker, pantin, HAAS, LOTS
Thats it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m49BBFJN5lA
[/ QUOTE ]
I did watch the video, you know I love the Hitch hiker and the bungee in the tenex is cool and very creative and I admire that. Plus it is clean and easy to add to an existing system.
I would say of the items you list, only the harness, pantin, HASS and LOTS are part of that walker system.
I think there are many ways to get to a walker and it does not need to be as complicated as it has appeared in the past. HAAS is a good example of that.
You know you can make a walker just by putting a pantin on each foot, you just have to walk like one leg is in a cast for a number of steps, kick one off and reconnect above the other and walk like the other leg is now in a cast alternating legs if you want to keep the legs working equally.
Another simple way to get to a walker is to put the Petzl basic on a stiffy tether with a foot loop attached, Velcro or otherwise attach the basic just below the knee and walk on up the rope.
Another way is to use, modify or make a frame similar to your gaffs frame. Attach a foot ascender or basic to the top of the frame and again, walk up the rope.
I've tried all of these and it works.
Of course you still need a life support connection, HH, Uni, RW, Duelcender, pursik etc etc.
In my case I have created a hands free walker just by maximizing the adjustability of the tools I'm already using.
Cheers
.
Have you watched the HAAS video.
All I have is harness, hitch hiker, pantin, HAAS, LOTS
Thats it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m49BBFJN5lA
[/ QUOTE ]
I did watch the video, you know I love the Hitch hiker and the bungee in the tenex is cool and very creative and I admire that. Plus it is clean and easy to add to an existing system.
I would say of the items you list, only the harness, pantin, HASS and LOTS are part of that walker system.
I think there are many ways to get to a walker and it does not need to be as complicated as it has appeared in the past. HAAS is a good example of that.
You know you can make a walker just by putting a pantin on each foot, you just have to walk like one leg is in a cast for a number of steps, kick one off and reconnect above the other and walk like the other leg is now in a cast alternating legs if you want to keep the legs working equally.
Another simple way to get to a walker is to put the Petzl basic on a stiffy tether with a foot loop attached, Velcro or otherwise attach the basic just below the knee and walk on up the rope.
Another way is to use, modify or make a frame similar to your gaffs frame. Attach a foot ascender or basic to the top of the frame and again, walk up the rope.
I've tried all of these and it works.
Of course you still need a life support connection, HH, Uni, RW, Duelcender, pursik etc etc.
In my case I have created a hands free walker just by maximizing the adjustability of the tools I'm already using.
Cheers
.
