Rope runner pro

. . . . Engineers said they weren't able to recreate the failure with a properly made product.

I've gotten shit that's defective right out of the box before as well. Doesn't mean EVERY single one that's ever been manufactured will experience same failure and should be recalled. Idk that's how I'm seeing this.
If Mr Nick and Mr Kevin are watching this thread, the quality controls mandated by EU standards for instance, are one of the things I like about european made gear. It goes back to a way of looking at your business and the way you make and sell stuff. Gets back to a comment that Rich Hattier made long time ago in a Treestuff video that arb is sometimes viewed by other at height disciplines as a bit cowboy-ish. Cool, but . .
I'd urge all the US arb climb mfgrs to try and obtain EU certs as much as possible - I think it a worthy goal even though it imposes a bunch more record keeping and stamping/ labelling, recalls, etc. In many other businesses (again I come from process industry) they really know what they're doing over there. Besides which it would open up more markets to US gear. Or is this blowin' smoke? May the six sigma be with you . . . .
When's a little spring not just some little spring?

Original Comment posted 21-Nov-2021 - Update for 20-Dec-2021 Honey Brothers now offer a CE certified version of the Rope Runner for the UK/ EU market. Good show! We can show our support for CE cert and QC by buying the CE version (not sure if it's sold in the US/ Cant-ada). (Ahem - they even show the California heavy metal content warning on their website - I suppose just for thoroughness . . . . :) )
 
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The comments on this thread are hysterical. Buy european they don't have problems? Eu standards are better? No... nope...and no
I will use 1 example

Petzl and their zig zag. They literally explained away that a crack in metal wasn't a problem and told use to climb on cracked links.
Hell... they had multiple recalls on the same piece of gear. Actually if you look historically, every problem petzl has had they have even pushed the ISA etc. To delete the headlines. Every device is only as safe as you make it. They couldn't even get a runner to replicate this problem... which means it was user error... yet here they are issuing a notice instead of trying to hide their cracked link. My two cents.
 
The comments on this thread are hysterical. Buy european they don't have problems? Eu standards are better? No... nope...and no
I will use 1 example

Petzl and their zig zag. They literally explained away that a crack in metal wasn't a problem and told use to climb on cracked links.
Hell... they had multiple recalls on the same piece of gear. Actually if you look historically, every problem petzl has had they have even pushed the ISA etc. To delete the headlines. Every device is only as safe as you make it. They couldn't even get a runner to replicate this problem... which means it was user error... yet here they are issuing a notice instead of trying to hide their cracked link. My two cents.
To play devil's advocate here, if this problem was user error, how did Notch come up with particular production dates of RRPs that are of concern? Did you actually read the notice? I have no comment on the EU standards because I don't know enough about this to contribute but I will say that I don't buy anything made by Petzl for multiple reasons.
 
Am I correct that alot of the european gear is required to undergo testing that gear like the RR (USA only) does not?

I use some european gear that has available testing results for a static drop, for instance. I like this. I don't see it for USA only gear.

I'm not advocating for either. I'm a newer climber, and I take a safer path in my climbing in general than some others do. I may use some USA only tools in the future, but the lack of testing is one reason I may not.

Thoughts?
 
Perhaps the US being the Land of Lawsuits makes domestic devices the safest in the world?

Since I'm a lightweight, I'm not too worried about failing climbing equipment. If something could fail under my weight, others would be dropping like flies. That said, I do put most of my inspection efforts into critical components (e.g. rope bridge, climbing ropes, descent devices) as opposed to components used with redundancy.
 
Apparently some RRPs have a lubrication port for the bird spring while others (maybe first batch) do not. Kind of wonder what made Notch decide to add one. Did they know something early on?
 
Hello all,

My name is Travis Shipman. I am the Quality Manager for Vertical Supply Group, the parent company of Notch Equipment and Sterling Rope. I arrived at Sterling 21 years ago with a rope, a rack, and the shirt on my back, and I now have multiple decades of experience as a quality professional within the fall protection and life safety field. Within our ISO9001 certified Sterling rope factory in Biddeford, Maine, I lead a team of 3 expert technicians, and as a team, we oversee quality, inspections, certifications, and testing for all VSG brands and products.

I am writing to add context regarding the recent notice for the Rope Runner Pro and help with some circulating misinformation. I can't guarantee I'll be able to reply to questions daily, but I will check in periodically to see if I can add value to the discourse on this forum.

In June, what was stated as a Rope Runner Pro spring failure was brought to our attention by a west coast arborist who returned three devices with an internal spring malfunction. We promptly started investigating the cause of the malfunction upon being alerted to it. To date, we have identified a total of six devices with this problem out of nearly 10,000 in the field. This prompted Notch to issue the Notice to Inspect to alert the arboriculture community and remind everyone to regularly inspect their gear.

We performed and continue to perform extensive lab testing both in development and with production units on Rope Runner Pros and all other Notch Equipment products. We recently performed cycle testing on the RRP's to 250,000 repetitions on the bird and could not recreate the failure from the recent claims. We cycle tested on the extreme ends of our tolerance range, with springs under-sized and outside the specification, and all passed.

As some are aware, the development of the Rope Runner Pro was an extensive process that we knew we had to get right. We went through many prototype iterations and worked in the field with dozens of arborists who brutally put the products through their paces over nearly 5-years before arriving at the product you see today.

Last summer, the Rope Runner Pro crossed a significant hurdle and received CE approval from an independent testing operation in Europe. Newer batch #'s of the device, certified to an internally written specification based on the EN 12841 PPE standard, will be available soon. Although they bear the CE mark, these units are no different from the current models.

We continue to work on this issue and will continue to investigate it, so please, if you have a device that you believe has an issue, contact Notch customer service, and we will take care of you. It is also worth noting that the RRP's that we've gotten back function correctly/normally after cleaning. This is a precision piece of equipment that must be maintained. As we say in the instructions, please continuously check that your bird pivots smoothly and clean it regularly!

I want to reiterate the scope of use of the Rope Runner Pro in this post, as there seems to be some confusion around this. The device is used as an ascent, descent, or work positioning device. It's not intended to catch dynamic falls. As with all work positioning devices, avoiding slack in the system while working is essential. If there is any chance of a fall, use a backup approved as a fall arrest device. It's worth referencing the User Instructions periodically to remind yourself of proper Rope Runner Pro techniques.

As I mentioned at the top, my role at VSG is quality leadership, not communications. Fire away with your questions, but please be patient with my response time. I'll engage as frequently and deeply as I possibly can.
 
"It is also worth noting that the RRP's that we've gotten back function correctly/normally after cleaning."

Can you expand on this? Was there a common contaminant and location on the units received? Was it just a simple clean and lube as specified in the user manual?

Thanks for the taking the time to reach out and introduce yourself.
 
Hello all,

My name is Travis Shipman. I am the Quality Manager for Vertical Supply Group, the parent company of Notch Equipment and Sterling Rope. I arrived at Sterling 21 years ago with a rope, a rack, and the shirt on my back, and I now have multiple decades of experience as a quality professional within the fall protection and life safety field. Within our ISO9001 certified Sterling rope factory in Biddeford, Maine, I lead a team of 3 expert technicians, and as a team, we oversee quality, inspections, certifications, and testing for all VSG brands and products.

I am writing to add context regarding the recent notice for the Rope Runner Pro and help with some circulating misinformation. I can't guarantee I'll be able to reply to questions daily, but I will check in periodically to see if I can add value to the discourse on this forum.

In June, what was stated as a Rope Runner Pro spring failure was brought to our attention by a west coast arborist who returned three devices with an internal spring malfunction. We promptly started investigating the cause of the malfunction upon being alerted to it. To date, we have identified a total of six devices with this problem out of nearly 10,000 in the field. This prompted Notch to issue the Notice to Inspect to alert the arboriculture community and remind everyone to regularly inspect their gear.

We performed and continue to perform extensive lab testing both in development and with production units on Rope Runner Pros and all other Notch Equipment products. We recently performed cycle testing on the RRP's to 250,000 repetitions on the bird and could not recreate the failure from the recent claims. We cycle tested on the extreme ends of our tolerance range, with springs under-sized and outside the specification, and all passed.

As some are aware, the development of the Rope Runner Pro was an extensive process that we knew we had to get right. We went through many prototype iterations and worked in the field with dozens of arborists who brutally put the products through their paces over nearly 5-years before arriving at the product you see today.

Last summer, the Rope Runner Pro crossed a significant hurdle and received CE approval from an independent testing operation in Europe. Newer batch #'s of the device, certified to an internally written specification based on the EN 12841 PPE standard, will be available soon. Although they bear the CE mark, these units are no different from the current models.

We continue to work on this issue and will continue to investigate it, so please, if you have a device that you believe has an issue, contact Notch customer service, and we will take care of you. It is also worth noting that the RRP's that we've gotten back function correctly/normally after cleaning. This is a precision piece of equipment that must be maintained. As we say in the instructions, please continuously check that your bird pivots smoothly and clean it regularly!

I want to reiterate the scope of use of the Rope Runner Pro in this post, as there seems to be some confusion around this. The device is used as an ascent, descent, or work positioning device. It's not intended to catch dynamic falls. As with all work positioning devices, avoiding slack in the system while working is essential. If there is any chance of a fall, use a backup approved as a fall arrest device. It's worth referencing the User Instructions periodically to remind yourself of proper Rope Runner Pro techniques.

As I mentioned at the top, my role at VSG is quality leadership, not communications. Fire away with your questions, but please be patient with my response time. I'll engage as frequently and deeply as I possibly can.
Can you explain why some have the lubrication port and some don't?
 
Hello all,

My name is Travis Shipman. I am the Quality Manager for Vertical Supply Group, the parent company of Notch Equipment and Sterling Rope. I arrived at Sterling 21 years ago with a rope, a rack, and the shirt on my back, and I now have multiple decades of experience as a quality professional within the fall protection and life safety field. Within our ISO9001 certified Sterling rope factory in Biddeford, Maine, I lead a team of 3 expert technicians, and as a team, we oversee quality, inspections, certifications, and testing for all VSG brands and products.

I am writing to add context regarding the recent notice for the Rope Runner Pro and help with some circulating misinformation. I can't guarantee I'll be able to reply to questions daily, but I will check in periodically to see if I can add value to the discourse on this forum.

In June, what was stated as a Rope Runner Pro spring failure was brought to our attention by a west coast arborist who returned three devices with an internal spring malfunction. We promptly started investigating the cause of the malfunction upon being alerted to it. To date, we have identified a total of six devices with this problem out of nearly 10,000 in the field. This prompted Notch to issue the Notice to Inspect to alert the arboriculture community and remind everyone to regularly inspect their gear.

We performed and continue to perform extensive lab testing both in development and with production units on Rope Runner Pros and all other Notch Equipment products. We recently performed cycle testing on the RRP's to 250,000 repetitions on the bird and could not recreate the failure from the recent claims. We cycle tested on the extreme ends of our tolerance range, with springs under-sized and outside the specification, and all passed.

As some are aware, the development of the Rope Runner Pro was an extensive process that we knew we had to get right. We went through many prototype iterations and worked in the field with dozens of arborists who brutally put the products through their paces over nearly 5-years before arriving at the product you see today.

Last summer, the Rope Runner Pro crossed a significant hurdle and received CE approval from an independent testing operation in Europe. Newer batch #'s of the device, certified to an internally written specification based on the EN 12841 PPE standard, will be available soon. Although they bear the CE mark, these units are no different from the current models.

We continue to work on this issue and will continue to investigate it, so please, if you have a device that you believe has an issue, contact Notch customer service, and we will take care of you. It is also worth noting that the RRP's that we've gotten back function correctly/normally after cleaning. This is a precision piece of equipment that must be maintained. As we say in the instructions, please continuously check that your bird pivots smoothly and clean it regularly!

I want to reiterate the scope of use of the Rope Runner Pro in this post, as there seems to be some confusion around this. The device is used as an ascent, descent, or work positioning device. It's not intended to catch dynamic falls. As with all work positioning devices, avoiding slack in the system while working is essential. If there is any chance of a fall, use a backup approved as a fall arrest device. It's worth referencing the User Instructions periodically to remind yourself of proper Rope Runner Pro techniques.

As I mentioned at the top, my role at VSG is quality leadership, not communications. Fire away with your questions, but please be patient with my response time. I'll engage as frequently and deeply as I possibly can.
Omg thank you thank you thank you! It's really nice to hear from somebody who is actually involved behind the scenes in all of this. The user manual says to use lube with mineral oil but it doesn't say much on how to clean properly. Could you provide some insight on the correct method?
 
Hello all,

My name is Travis Shipman. I am the Quality Manager for Vertical Supply Group, the parent company of Notch Equipment and Sterling Rope. I arrived at Sterling 21 years ago with a rope, a rack, and the shirt on my back, and I now have multiple decades of experience as a quality professional within the fall protection and life safety field. Within our ISO9001 certified Sterling rope factory in Biddeford, Maine, I lead a team of 3 expert technicians, and as a team, we oversee quality, inspections, certifications, and testing for all VSG brands and products.

I am writing to add context regarding the recent notice for the Rope Runner Pro and help with some circulating misinformation. I can't guarantee I'll be able to reply to questions daily, but I will check in periodically to see if I can add value to the discourse on this forum.

In June, what was stated as a Rope Runner Pro spring failure was brought to our attention by a west coast arborist who returned three devices with an internal spring malfunction. We promptly started investigating the cause of the malfunction upon being alerted to it. To date, we have identified a total of six devices with this problem out of nearly 10,000 in the field. This prompted Notch to issue the Notice to Inspect to alert the arboriculture community and remind everyone to regularly inspect their gear.

We performed and continue to perform extensive lab testing both in development and with production units on Rope Runner Pros and all other Notch Equipment products. We recently performed cycle testing on the RRP's to 250,000 repetitions on the bird and could not recreate the failure from the recent claims. We cycle tested on the extreme ends of our tolerance range, with springs under-sized and outside the specification, and all passed.

As some are aware, the development of the Rope Runner Pro was an extensive process that we knew we had to get right. We went through many prototype iterations and worked in the field with dozens of arborists who brutally put the products through their paces over nearly 5-years before arriving at the product you see today.

Last summer, the Rope Runner Pro crossed a significant hurdle and received CE approval from an independent testing operation in Europe. Newer batch #'s of the device, certified to an internally written specification based on the EN 12841 PPE standard, will be available soon. Although they bear the CE mark, these units are no different from the current models.

We continue to work on this issue and will continue to investigate it, so please, if you have a device that you believe has an issue, contact Notch customer service, and we will take care of you. It is also worth noting that the RRP's that we've gotten back function correctly/normally after cleaning. This is a precision piece of equipment that must be maintained. As we say in the instructions, please continuously check that your bird pivots smoothly and clean it regularly!

I want to reiterate the scope of use of the Rope Runner Pro in this post, as there seems to be some confusion around this. The device is used as an ascent, descent, or work positioning device. It's not intended to catch dynamic falls. As with all work positioning devices, avoiding slack in the system while working is essential. If there is any chance of a fall, use a backup approved as a fall arrest device. It's worth referencing the User Instructions periodically to remind yourself of proper Rope Runner Pro techniques.

As I mentioned at the top, my role at VSG is quality leadership, not communications. Fire away with your questions, but please be patient with my response time. I'll engage as frequently and deeply as I possibly can.
So is the device and its warranty worthy of commercial use, or does, as stated in a very poorly worded email (unlike how you have come to present the case), use in a work setting void the warranty?
If it does void the warranty, for what reason is this a thing for a device sold as a tool for arborists? Or has notch simply left out that intrical detail from thir marketing? I don't expect you to answer that I guess, I know you don't represent notch specifically.
The gap of user understanding and actually understandable instructions, combined with what seems like a lack of honest R and D information or at least good use of the R and D, just looks like such a set up for misuse and injuries
 
The “not for commercial use” bit that has people worked up has been blown up too much.

Sure, the wording needs work, and leaves room for confusion.

I would guess that commercial vs personal refers to the device being owned by one user rather than owned by a company and passed around to different users. @vsgqlt , clarity please.

If the “splice witch” was more interested in finding solutions than riding sensationalism, they would’ve asked notch for clarity on that point prior to getting online to mock what they don’t understand.
 
Commercial use does not void the warranty. Like most things PPE, your Rope Runner should be considered a personal use item.

The Notch product team, after hearing from some early customers how they were cleaning sap off the product with parts cleaner, decided to add the hole. It was added as more of a cleanout port for the spring, than a lubrication hole.

After cleaning many devices over the past few months, the Engineer at Notch who has worked with the device most, has some cleaning advice that he believes work best.

"Automotive parts cleaner seems to be the best way to clean sap from between the cheeks of the bird. It's best to use the small straw that comes with aerosol cans of cleaner, as it really forces the cleaner in and the sap out. It is most important to lube between the bird cheeks after cleaning, not necessarily lubing the spring. I used a Graphite Dry Lubricant, again using the small straw that came with the lube to force it between the bird cheeks. I found this lube most effective for extended use. As mentioned it is not required to lube the spring as it's installed dry, it's more important to clean it out.

Lastly and most importantly, after cleaning and lubing, make sure that the product is wiped down, especially if any of the lube got onto the slic pin or the bollards."
 
Here is my takeaway. The spring is similar to pistol magazine springs, it works properly dry. Cleaning with carb cleaner or similar is fine, and a straw for applying at high pressure works best to blow out the sap. Critical to get sap out from between the bird cheeks where they pivot. A little bit of dry lube at the cheeks in the pivot area keeps things smooth without attracting dirt. No lube on the friction surfaces.

No lube necessary anywhere else.

Love my RRP.
 
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