Rope runner, my initial thoughts

[ QUOTE ]
This is a test production run. I had a small group of "investors" fund this project half a year ahead of time. They now own rope runners. "The Dirty Thirty" They have helped me spend time out of the trees and in the lab so to speak. I have had several runners out amongst climbers over the past year and have made a couple of videos in the meantime. I have been climbing on one for a year and a half. There was an SRT/Rope Runner Seminar I held in Detroit at the beginning of the month. I am in full contact with everyone who has a runner and am receiving feedback. I was able to make a few extra runners and invest in making this work with the help of the original dirty 30. This would not have been possible without them. I hope these will be met with satisfaction. The people who are pare of the runner project also signed a liability waiver acknowledging basically that I am not Petzl, and basically nothing is guaranteed except for me to be available to answer questions.

I needed enough people so I could afford to buy some things in bulk, but not too many people to where I could not keep track of the runners.

I personally think the wrench is a better way to go for tree work but the mechanical devices have a purpose as well and they have their applications, there are advantages and disadvantages, things that are safer, some things that are more hazardous. If you are interested in participating in the Rope Runner project please PM me or email me. Im on treebuzz everyday.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would a been a way better opener. Thanks for setting the scene.
 
[ QUOTE ]
"I personally think the wrench is a better way to go for tree work but the mechanical devices have a purpose as well and they have their applications, there are advantages and disadvantages, things that are safer, some things that are more hazardous."

[/ QUOTE ]

You have tremendous credibility with statements like this, especially since you have a commercial interest in getting runners accepted in the market.

I wonder though, could you be more specific about when the wrench is a better solution?

And when is the runner advantaged?

Just to illustrate the psychology here:
The wrench was revolutionary, the runner is the next refinement. Who wouldn't want to experience the ultimate state of the art?
 
Kevin did not start this thread. Perhaps a gag order would have solved the problem, but really, is that necessary? I have no problem with the circumstances, and the organic feedback seems like a good Q & A with the arb world.

-Tom
 
Well hitches are a better tool I think. Lighter, stronger, cheaper, more adjustable. The rope runner is more complicated and more expensive. It has very little friction on ascent. The descent is not quite as intuitive as a hitch. I don't know. Not much you can do on this that you can't do with an rw or HH. I am curious to whether people pull out the rr or choose a hitch. For the past year I have pulled out the rr but that is because it is the project I am working on. I don't know if I were an objective consumer.
 
[ QUOTE ]
We all know your right Dave, but that doesn't mean we have to be happy about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

X2 No actual hard feelings here either. Just some light-hearted jealousy is all.
 
PM sent. just kidding, ill let the investors have their fun.
I do have one question for kevin!
It seems like the rope runner will last longer than the zingzang, unicopter, and anthropodjack due to the friction on the slickpins, I've been using the zk-2 since it came out and haven't had to replace the slickpin. Is this true?
 
I have a RR and it is a good tool, unlike Eric it will not replace my RW... I prefer the hitch for most work scenarios..for sappy trees the RR will be nice, but I will use it as a change up too...the RW is just so simple, light and the hitch is so familiar....as time passes this comparison might change we will see...thumbs up to Bing and the RR....
 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp-KgLuL7_c

This is the best runner video to date. Head am so it will make you dizzy. But it shows me climbing with runner. Also not really needing to tend my friction hitch as I climb which is the best advantage of the runner. I can control my swings comparably with a hitch but only after several months of feeling it. There is the obvious hazard of snagging the beak unintentionally. It does not work very well in rads. Goes nicely with a haas but not so much a frog.
 
That video is helpful.
I don't have a RR but I am enjoying the thread. I think it's great to get this feedback so quickly, so please keep it coming even though I too am a little jealous. I am really enjoying the Wrench right now since I started using kernmaster and armorprus with a michoacan. Great combo, my favorite so far. I am really looking forward to using a RR soon though
 
Ran with my new RR (I guess it will be Chip's soon because his name is in it, but that's another story) on the job first time two days ago.
I still have trust issues with a pure mechanical but that's a head issue, not a tool issue.
No setback is the thing I love most. The ascent is so smooth compared with the sloppiness tending a soft hitch.

All that is needed is a foot ascender. (Or, you could footlock.) Completely dispense with the hand ascender/foot loop, which isn't recommended in the RR instructions anyway. I like the simplicity of not having to take any gear of the rope to start working.

Chip's been dialing in the Haas system with the RR. That's probably going to be the least effort way to ascend with the RR.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Ran with my new RR...
Chip's been dialing in the Haas system with the RR. That's probably going to be the least effort way to ascend with the RR.

[/ QUOTE ]

The HAAS is the best with this unit, but I will throw in a word of advice. Wherever you connect your HAAS snap, make sure it is not anywhere such as your bridge ring, lower swivel eye, or anything below the RR. It must be connected to something at or above the tending point. If not, the bungee of the HAAS will be pulling your RR carabiner DOWN, which pulls the RR pulley DOWN, which creates friction, which slows you DOWN.

I use a simple web sling chest harness to attach to the tending point of the RR (lower slick pin). The HAAS snap is attached to the chest harness connector. What is nice about this is it allows for more bungee in the system, which can maximize your stride.
 
I have a bit more to say on the RR. The bit about dumping the bird on limb walks and using your fingers around the back of the tether... it only really works when the lower friction arms are reversed to make the space between the pin and the main body narrower. This changes the geometry enough to make the tether technique possible, but in the normal configuration, that technique is a bit dodgy. Just though I'd throw that out there if anyone's trying the technique without luck.

When the lower arms are flipped, they barely raise up before providing friction when compared to the wider (factory) mode.

After some time on the unit, I actually feel as though it would benefit more from an adjustable pin on the lower arms, either instead of, or in conjunction with the pin up on the bird. I don't have a way of truly substantiating this, other than by flipping the arms around and seeing how that translates to what you can get away with in regard to the pin on the bird. I say "get away with" because I've found that the best feel you can get out of the unit is with bird pin fully open, and not all rope diameters or firmness allow this.

The reason I flipped the lower arms was to try the RR on 10.5mm Platinum, since it creeped before swapping them around. After the swap, I tried it on some larger lines with good results, and in most cases, the bird could be fully open.

I'd really like to hear from some others about their findings.
 
treebing said:

Here is an epic rope runner video by the way
Click to expand...

The only thing wrong with that video is there should be 3-4' of snow right now at that elevation in the Sierra Nevada, otherwise everything is very right with that video. For big tree ascents and canopy movement the RR and Haas are all a climber needs to get around, good-bye complicated one-way SRT climbing systems!
 
treebing said:
You did not find the friction to drag you down with the bigger diameters on ascent?

Here is an epic rope runner video by the way
Click to expand...
Nah, because I had the Surveyor Bushing installed instead of the factory bushing, which gives just enough room to avoid drag on ascent due to the sheave-type profile. The factory pin works well in narrow mode on lines like Platinum 10.5 mm and 11.5 mm.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom