Rope Guide Setting from ground

Tr33Climb3r

Tr33Climb3r

Participating member
Location
Wisconsin
Ok I am basing this setup of the rope quide from the one that Murph created here . He created a rope guide primus (basic) replica.

Now I drew a picture of the way it is used properly on branch "B" but on branch "A" I set it differently. Now with this setup you could set it from the ground just like a regular friction saver. Then once you get to that point you can put it the proper way like on branch "B"

The thing is that Murph used a shackle I believe it is called for the small opening of the rope guide. Shackle "1" used in branch "A's" setup is taking some load with the cocoon pulley correct?
Now I am not familiar with these devices but are they capable of the breaking strength 5,400 pounds which i believe is the minimum strength a climbing carabiner can have. If it is does it also have to have double auto locking?
On branch "B" shackle number "2" is not taking any load so it ok to have it there correct?

So if this rope guide is set from the ground would shackle "1" need to be replaced with a small double auto locking carabiner that is the same size of shackle "1" so it can also be the small opening so the small ball doesn't pass through it when it is being retrieved from the ground.

Thanks,
Casey
 

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Here is an illustration by Wolter (treespotter).
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/images/upload/85656-installingthepulleyfrictionsaver.pdf

Your setup in branch 'A' defeats the purpose of installing the Ropeguide from the ground. You have to ascend all the way to the TIP, secure yourself, pull your rope back up to you, and then reset everything. Why not just set a line, ascend, and then install the RG? Good on ya for being creative, I just think it's more trouble than it's worth.
 
OK, shoot me if you've all heard this one before. The guys from COR Ergonomics just showed me a frictionless setup that IMO smokes the friction saver and myriad laborious setup techniques.

Toss your throwbag up there in the crotch you want, and nevermind if it goes down the other side of the tree, past 5, 10, 15 other branches that would normally be in your way. Remove the throwbag, tie on a low-stretch line long enough to make it to the desired crotch, plus 20' or so for securing it. Tie a CMI or similar load-bearing pulley to the other end of the line with a clove hitch (back it up). Put your climbing line through the pulley, keeping both ends with you. Pull the low stretch line through the desired crotch until the pulley is at the desired height, then secure the line to the trunk with a whoopie or loopie, or whatever, with a carabiner and a munter hitch (back it up). You are now good to go with a practically frictionless system up there in the tree! Two MAJOR benefits... You don't have to isolate one crotch with the throwbag, and if you are injured in the tree, a groundman can lower you and your whole system with the munter from the ground. What do you think? I am going to implement this system asap, once I get my bro (groundman) on board with it!

-Tom
 
[ QUOTE ]
Here is an illustration by Wolter (treespotter).
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/images/upload/85656-installingthepulleyfrictionsaver.pdf

Your setup in branch 'A' defeats the purpose of installing the Ropeguide from the ground. You have to ascend all the way to the TIP, secure yourself, pull your rope back up to you, and then reset everything. Why not just set a line, ascend, and then install the RG? Good on ya for being creative, I just think it's more trouble than it's worth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well because then when ascending using branch "A's" setup you have a lot less friction than if you just had your climbing line right over the branch. Also don't you have to get to the top of the tree anyways to get the highest point?

Well you don't have to pull it all the way up if you just pull the eye splice end of your rope through so then it gets caught on the small shackle then loop the eye splice end over the branch, put the splice over the cocoon pulley, take the rope from the shackle end put it through the cocoon pulley like if you brought it up with you.

But my main question is if I set it like branch "A" does the shackle have to be able to have a breaking strength of 5,400 and also be able to be double auto locking to use the setup like in branch "A"
 
[ QUOTE ]
OK, shoot me if you've all heard this one before. The guys from COR Ergonomics just showed me a frictionless setup that IMO smokes the friction saver and myriad laborious setup techniques.

Toss your throwbag up there in the crotch you want, and nevermind if it goes down the other side of the tree, past 5, 10, 15 other branches that would normally be in your way. Remove the throwbag, tie on a low-stretch line long enough to make it to the desired crotch, plus 20' or so for securing it. Tie a CMI or similar load-bearing pulley to the other end of the line with a clove hitch (back it up). Put your climbing line through the pulley, keeping both ends with you. Pull the low stretch line through the desired crotch until the pulley is at the desired height, then secure the line to the trunk with a whoopie or loopie, or whatever, with a carabiner and a munter hitch (back it up). You are now good to go with a practically frictionless system up there in the tree! Two MAJOR benefits... You don't have to isolate one crotch with the throwbag, and if you are injured in the tree, a groundman can lower you and your whole system with the munter from the ground. What do you think? I am going to implement this system asap, once I get my bro (groundman) on board with it!

-Tom

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Interesting I would need a drawing to understand it
 
I dont see an advantage. Unless you want to Ddrt (body thrust) all the way up to you TIP. Footlocking DRT or SRT would be far more efficient. When you climb to prune, dont you start at the top and work your way down? Just ascend DRT or SRT to your TIP, then install the RG by hand.
Installing a FC from the ground is a cool trick, but rarely needed. Unless you dont need to work the tie in area.

And if you want a RG that would do double duty as a FC, youd be better off with a ring instead of the spliced loop. Then you could pass your line through both the ring and pulley like a traditonal FC (and install it from the ground, if wanted) or you could pass the pulley thru the ring passing your line thru the pulley like RG style.

Does that make sense?
 
You could definately not use the rope guide I made in configuration A. The shackle pin opens by rotating and having a rope running over the pin would be incredibly dangerous. I would think it would be far simpler if you were dead set on installing it this way to just clip a temporary carabiner into the big loop and install it like a ring and pulley friction saver. Once you got to the top, remove the carabiner and simply use the rope loop for easy retrieval. Either way you have to ascend to the top anyways so why not just ascend and then install it once you get up there.
 
Yea that makes sense too. See the thing is we rarely are in trees that doesnt have a single branch until like 40 feet up. So we just climb to get to the highest point so if you have to body thrust for a short distance it is best to have the least amount of friction as possible.

That's a good idea Murph about using the cocoon as the small end of the setup....i would have never thought of that. Yea I was thinking that branch "A" wasn't going to work unless you could get a climbing carabiner that was the same size as the shackle i believe you call it.

I dont know I just had some extra time so I was thinking about the rope guide primus and then the look alike that Murph built and then how it could be applied to the tree.

Now i just need to learn how to splice 16 strand rope, buy a cocoon pulley and set it up.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Well because then when ascending using branch "A's" setup you have a lot less friction than if you just had your climbing line right over the branch.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't realize you were talking about body thrusting. If you want to go this route, take Murph's suggestion and install a triple action krab in one side so you can set it like a traditional friction saver.



[ QUOTE ]
But my main question is if I set it like branch "A" does the shackle have to be able to have a breaking strength of 5,400 and also be able to be double auto locking to use the setup like in branch "A".

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, technically it needs to meet strength and security requirements for life support.
 
Hey, Tomthetreeman
That's a nice set up to use,quick and easy to do.
Just keep in mind the forces that you are putting on the branch union,which it is twice your weight.
You can reduce that by setting the throwline through multiple branches.Good luck.
grin.gif
 
...I always seem to get my throwbag over more than just the desired crotch, anyway LOL! With this system, I can just let it run down the other side of the tree, usually going over at least a few more limbs on the way down. The zero friction system allows you to pull yourself up the tree by practically walking up the trunk, if footlocking or using a foot ascender aren't practical. AND you can trim starting at the bottom if the tree calls for it.

Tr33climb3r, I will draw it and scan it in later when I have some time.

-Tom
 
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now what is the triple action krab you are talking about?

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Triple Action = Double Auto Locking

Europeans use the term "Triple Action" to describe the three distinct movements involved in opening the gate. I feel this is more accurate and specific terminology.
 
tomthetreeman,

What you are describing is the "Floating False Crotch". Published in the "Tree Climber's Companion" by Jeff Jepson (and probably even somewhere before that). Great technique and many climbers use it often. I prefer a slightly different configuration.
 
I think that we get distracted by products, such as the friction saver. Once you have the product, you are compelled to use it, even if there is a simpler technique or system available. I am guilty of this for sure many times over. It's just funny when someone opens your eyes to something so simple that was right under your nose. I'm sure I will still use my FS, but the pulley is the way to go for me now... Makes the whole line setting way easier. For me, at least.

-Tom
 
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img006.jpg


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Yea I am familiar with this technique and often thought about using it. Its just hard to put words into a picture for me. Oh and pretty cool drawings.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
now what is the triple action krab you are talking about?

[/ QUOTE ]

Triple Action = Double Auto Locking

Europeans use the term "Triple Action" to describe the three distinct movements involved in opening the gate. I feel this is more accurate and specific terminology.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh ok cool

yea the triple action does make more sense
 
I use this consistently in trees that are too bushy to make a clear shot into with the ball. Works just fine and is way faster than going all the way up to set a friction saver of any sort.
KISS
That bshould b the motto of every tree man until A.G. boots come out! lol!
 
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