Root Collar Examination video, the gradual way

Wow I forgot how hansome you are!
grin.gif

You always have your back to us.

Thanks Guy for sharing
Mon professeur incroyable!
smile.gif
 
Thanks for posting. You certainly pay attention to detail.

I have used torching before without success so I am glad to hear that you have had good results.
 
I'm interested in your flux abatement method Guy.

Use of the torch seems like a logical sterilization method in a local proximity sense. However does little in terms of eradicating the origins of the infection itself, only killing its exudate so to speak.

When I was a rookie in the 70's I was lucky enough to work with an experienced old hand arborist, Nick Cascio Sr. Who taught me how to deal with Slime Flux disease in poplars by channeling the flux away from uninflected wood via copper tubing insertion into the wounds lower extremity and providing a drain pathway, away from uninfected wood.

Much like a surgeon does in infected patients after surgical removal of infected tissue.

Is it realistically possible to cure slime flux infections, or just limit their spread rate? Like anthracnose in sycamores?

jomoco
 
thanks jp and frax. jo, where is the origin of the infection?

amazing how almost all the response so far is about the torch. this is old school effective--the tubes either wound or clog or get overgrown. heres chat w a brit


Have you carried out the cauterising many times?
&yes typically now on lesions. just a quick double pass for dry cankers, and just enough to stop the sizzling on the juicy bits. seen it done in orchards in NZ, and WI and MI and FL in the US.
note in the easytofind lit below they talk about scorching the wood, but as you note this damage can predispose to infection. at the most i watch the wood darken but not shrivel or crack. it depends on how degraded the tissue is--careful tracing essential ahead of torching, so the flame can keep moving.

Has there ever been any anecdotal evidence of associated fungal activity where the burning has occured.
&one patch of oyster fungus.

I often see the likes of Bjerkendra on burnt oaks which I imagine is partly due to dead material but also perhaps the change in bark chemistry?
&Wood chemistry too. bad to boil the juice out of wood generally, but when some/much of that juice is infected/infectious it's a hard call. i try to err on the side of missing some; there is usually a followup eruption or two to deal with anyway.

Would a moving of the first line of car parking away from the outer periphery of RPA & an amelioration of the root zone be a worthwhile consideration with this post oak?
& Cars are way beyond dripline, and one is afoul of town planners etc if one takes parking away; my god man this is america; cars are mobile sanctuaries and objects of worship!
soil amelioration (my favorite word as it derives as my surname) is focused on the symptomatic sides of the rootzone; toward the sidewalk mainly. Companion plants are being reviewed now; a mix of grasses and perennial flowers maybe ground orchids and asarum.

http://whatcom.wsu.edu/mgtemp/classe...ase/EB1013.pdf

Burning cankers to cauterize them
is a method which comes from New
Zealand. Tree fruit owners use a
propane torch to cauterize cankers on
the trunk and larger branches. They
direct flames on the canker until the
underlying tissue begins to crackle
and char (5 to 20 seconds). *Ed note--Yikes!* Treatment
must extend to the outer canker
margins, where active bacterial
infection occurs. Treated cankers are
inspected in 15 to 20 days. Cankers
should be heated again if the
disease continues to show activity
beyond the burnt area. Cauterizing
should take
place in early spring, before bloom,
when the bacteria are active, and
the cankers are enlarging. Cankers
observed in the fall should be
cauterized immediately to prevent
spread of the disease during cool,
rainy fall and winter weather.
Several months following treatment,
charred tissue will slough off, leaving
a well-formed callus.

and from http://www.extension.uidaho.edu/nurs...it%20Trees.pdf

There is no complete control by
any single method for bacterial canker and gummosis of stone fruit trees but
there are many useful practices that can help reduce the risk of infestation. ...
Cankers can be controlled by cauterization with a hand help propane burner in
early to mid spring. Hold the flame up to the canker for fifteen to twenty seconds
until the bark and underlying tissue begins to crackle and crinkle.
*That's more like it, still leaving juice in the wood.*
If it is
necessary you can repeat this method in 2-3 weeks (Agrios, 445). ...
Works cited
Agrios, G.N. (1997). Plant Pathology. 4th Ed., Academic Press, San Diego, CA
 

Attachments

Well, removing clogged copper drain tubes from cankers and inserting new tubes to catch the flux exudate and contain it, was the purpose of the treatment after all Guy.

That exudate is pretty much toxic to everything it touches, so containing it and removing it every 6 months or so, is far preferable to letting it ooze down the trunk and stink up the entire area, trunk, grass, pathways or whatever's below it.

I think any short changing of these old school arborists methods and techniques is presumptuous at times, and need more objective research before proving their efficacy or lack thereof before being abandoned.

There is no cure for slime flux infections has been widely accepted as the bottom line finding on the matter, however mediation of the infections that lessen the exposure of uninfected live wood tissues to the pathogen's exudate, by containment and removal processes, makes so much practical sense to me, it still gets an enthusiastic thumbs up from me today.

The infection is internal to the xylem wood, where you caint torch it Guy!

jomoco
 
Contrary to the above opinion...usually bacterial wetwood is of little or no significance (Sinclair, Harris, Shigo, et al) to landscape trees (does have some import to lumber). It is even considered a type of protection wood discouraging invasion of decay causing organisms with both high pH and the nearly anaerobic nature of wetwood.

Are we considering the desperate last ditch use of a blow torch on highly virulent bacterial canker causing organisms to save his orchard by a fruit tree farmer research? It is even said not to work very well at all.

Maybe I missed something.

You have been advocating this torching of infections for years. Next it will be in a Dendro with no data to support as no one challenges those types of articles.
 
"That exudate is pretty much toxic to everything it touches, so containing it and removing it every 6 months or so, is far preferable to letting it ooze down the trunk and stink up the entire area, trunk, grass, pathways or whatever's below it."

I agree!

I think any short changing of these old school arborists methods and techniques is presumptuous at times, and need more objective research before proving their efficacy or lack thereof before being abandoned.

I agree!

"There is no cure for slime flux infections has been widely accepted as the bottom line finding on the matter.

This is frothy flux. Besides, how can someone sit in San Diego and issue continent- or is it galaxy-wide bottom lines? Every tree is different, and, it was also widely accepted that the Earth is Flat.

", however mediation of the infections that lessen the exposure of uninfected live wood tissues to the pathogen's exudate, by containment and removal processes, makes so much practical sense to me, it still gets an enthusiastic thumbs up from me today."

I agree! any oozing site can be treated by drying. note i did not say cured, though many do remain inactive, in my 8 years of monitoring.

"The infection is internal to the xylem wood, where you caint torch it Guy!

this is frothy flux, which bubbles in the cambium, pushing off the bark, killing the cambium, and spreading the wound.
cant consult without a current sinclair; sorry.

Dave you cite Sinclair; see p384, 2nd edition. yup time to shop again! it's only been out 7 years. this is very different from what you and jo are talking about.

Closed wounds are the data, but you can do, or not, what you want, or not, i aint yo daddy.
ahhhhh.gif
 
Don't get me wrong Guy, this is a great topic for discussion, and I have the utmost respect for you posting your hands on experience in treating it.

I believe we agree on far more than we disagree on.

After all, fire's requisite for some tree species to reproduce!

jomoco
 
guy quotes

[ QUOTE ]


Dave you cite Sinclair; see p384, 2nd edition. yup time to shop again! it's only been out 7 years. this is very different from what you and jo are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, got a first ed. but if bacterial wetwood actually killed phloem (that what u talkin bout?) then there would be huge dead areas under all those streaks under crotches, etc. on elms and poplars, etc. Not the case obviously.

[ QUOTE ]
Closed wounds are the data, but you can do, or not, what you want, or not, i aint yo daddy.
ahhhhh.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

you'd get a closed wound eventually if you slammed a sledge hammer into the trunk of any healthy section of bark to kill a rogue aphid...don't mean it is the right thing to do tho does it?

This is like having a zit on your nose and torching it off to spite your face. No zit...but no nose either:-)

ps...when you gonna do the "Risk Assessment" (the title of your youtube vid)
 
Just to add to the subject of slime flux disease susceptible tree species in my locale(SoCal), I've never cut down a poplar here that didn't stink of slime flux once you cut into the trunk's heartwood.

It's pervasive in poplars here, much like fire blight on ornamental pears, and anthracnose in CA sycamores.

jomoco
 
zale, they used 1/8". resisto and tomo. and some really strange formulae. the Dockers stayed nice and clean though!

"yes, got a first ed."

time to join the 21st century then u2, and learn what frothy (not slime) flux is.
 
No news flash that I do not know everything. That is why my library holds over a hundred arboricultural texts. Probably not gonna replace a text I bought back in the mid 80's for 2 plus bills, to discover a new kinda flux either. I could just make stuff up as I go like someone like Frax, etc. does...but nah, I just read more.

My surprise is not that the infamous "frothy" flux exists but rather that a swift little fella like you would advocate a shotgun/flamethrower treatment technique like you are advocating here. In an article I tripped over on Google you (parroting researchers) council:

"a more cautious approach to tissue removal..."

"clear need for non invasive methods for tissue removal to preserve tree..."

"careful removal of dead bark may reveal cambiu...."

"cut tissue as close to healthy tissue w/out injuring it..."

http://www.tcia.org/PDFs/TCI_Mag_09_04_FULLsm.pdf

Noteworthy is your noting of the duel between the bacterial flux and the decay causing Armillaria fungus in the pits. Maybe suppression of this bacteria opens the door to a much bigger problem. Maybe the tree survives the flux and ultimately fights it off like the probably thousands of other infections it has fought off in the past.
 

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom