Rigging Gear purchase

sherwood7 said:
It's not a misunderstanding, it's called a difference of opinion.

True blue
1/2 in, 7300 lbs breaking, 8.8 lbs/100ft

Dynasorb
5/8 in, 18000 lbs breaking, 13.3 lbs/100ft

Wtf is the misunderstanding. Less than 5lbs/100ft buys you 10,700 lbs breaking strength? And don't talk any smack about elongation/stretch etc. dynasorb is made for rigging, true blue and 11.7 climbing lines are not.Sure you don't need 5/8 for everything, but for many jobs it buys you extra insurance and cycles to failure. Are we throwing the swl out the window? One rope is not for everything. I don't care what you do, but don't give some newer guy looking for advice some crappy bias opinion. Look at the facts and choose the right rope for the right type of job.
Click to expand...


I am not all about dropping a 1500lb piece on true blue, but I still say that if he is scared he is going to break a solid braid half inch rope, then maybe he should take it smaller or wait to handle something so large/unclimbable until he is established enough to afford proper equipment and (this correllation happens through some sort of magic) experienced enough to tackle those sorts of jobs.
Big numbers have a tendency to artifically inflate the confidence of an inexperienced shot-callers. I've been there. I have been lucky in the past.

No offense or accusations meant at all, just an observation of general tendencies and arguing for the sake of argument rather than about what you should buy.

Get a half inch workhorse that isn't arborplex. I, personally, prefer a 16 strand solid braid, but a 12 strand could serve you quite similarly.
I started my own gig with two 5/8th stable braids that were 150' each. I only needed them about a dozen times over three years. I used them more, but only because I needed more ropes rather than bigger ropes.
 
Emphasis on "difference of opinion".

I gladly switch out for larger when needed, but only then. I will use the lightest rope i can safely use for a job. Today was a great example of versatility with a small line- I wanted to take out a lead that was more than should be dumped on cherry bomb, but I saw that I could spear cut it and let the butt free fall to the ground so the rope would only be used to control the top once the piece landed. If that scenario hadn't opened up, sure, time to change up, whether to smaller pieces or a larger rope. More likely smaller pieces, as the rest of the roping in the tree was going to be small. The point is- how you use a rope is a large determining factor of which rope to use. I can use a smaller, double braid line longer by keeping loads static or otherwise off the line. Dynamic loading is a different animal, but may only call for a different braid, and not a bigger one. A rope's ability to handle the assigned task has as much to do with construction as size. I'm sure you know this; I'm only bringing it up to emphasize your statement that it IS all a matter of opinion- based on style, situations commonly faced, body-type, experience, and favorite color.

There have been times that I've carried 5/8 around the tree, when there were a lot of variations in rigging loads, or when everything could come down in big sections. However, I try not to when possible. You say it's not much change- you've got some grit. I feel a difference, especially in the summer heat, and I will happily go with the smallest possible line.
 
I'm not saying people need to experience what I'm saying, but ive seen true blue and stable braid go thru a lot, with a lot being asked of them, and still haven't "cycled them to failure". Catching logs, winch extensions, natty crotches, trunk wraps on rough bark...
I'm also not saying it'll never happen, but it sounds like I have a lot more faith in my 1/2 lines then some.
And save the "it just hasn't happened yet" comments cause any moment where I had the slightest doubt about a rope holding a load (and it's ALWAYS been because of what the rope's been thru, not cause I thought it was took big 1/2") is a moment o use as a reference point, and usually dial it back a bit from there.

#whipoutyourbig1/2"
 
I just missed seeing 1/2" stable-braid disintegrate one day. I came from another job to help out, and the guys showed me the break. It just separated midway- cycles, like you say. However, I had asked that we retire that rope well before it happened because of a change in texture ( brittle fibers, very coarse) and gut feel. It had been in service for two heavy production years and just didn't feel like it had any life left. Thankfully nothing was damaged and no one was hurt. The positive was getting a new reel of rope!

It's about knowing your cordage and being honest with yourself when it's time to upgrade, like Cut-high said.
 
Crimsonking said:
Emphasis on "difference of opinion".

I gladly switch out for larger when needed, but only then. I will use the lightest rope i can safely use for a job. Today was a great example of versatility with a small line- I wanted to take out a lead that was more than should be dumped on cherry bomb, but I saw that I could spear cut it and let the butt free fall to the ground so the rope would only be used to control the top once the piece landed. If that scenario hadn't opened up, sure, time to change up, whether to smaller pieces or a larger rope. More likely smaller pieces, as the rest of the roping in the tree was going to be small. The point is- how you use a rope is a large determining factor of which rope to use. I can use a smaller, double braid line longer by keeping loads static or otherwise off the line. Dynamic loading is a different animal, but may only call for a different braid, and not a bigger one. A rope's ability to handle the assigned task has as much to do with construction as size. I'm sure you know this; I'm only bringing it up to emphasize your statement that it IS all a matter of opinion- based on style, situations commonly faced, body-type, experience, and favorite color.

There have been times that I've carried 5/8 around the tree, when there were a lot of variations in rigging loads, or when everything could come down in big sections. However, I try not to when possible. You say it's not much change- you've got some grit. I feel a difference, especially in the summer heat, and I will happily go with the smallest possible line.
Click to expand...

That was well put. A good description of where and why to use a certin rope. Everyone has to keep themselves safe. I just want people to remember that if you use lighter equipment for ease of operation you are almost always sacrificing some strength and safety factors. In my view, if you want to play this game for a long time its is always better to stack the deck in your favor when you can. And you are correct, at the end of the day this is just my opinion. Good discussion
 
Some people have different ideas of what's "heavy",i use polydyne/dynasorb in 1/2",10,500 average break strength...i use the shit out of it,negative rigging,ya why not! I also switch to 5/8 when the load increases,don't tempt fate! There are swll's for a reason,don't be naive.
 
To add to conversation what about long ropes for pulling back leaners? right now I just use my shorter ropes and sheet bend them together when required. If I was looking for 400+ feet in a single rope to cinch the top with, use a 5:1 Prussic on, and then lock up the gains on a bollard? With that much rope in the mix I was thinking maybe Stable Braid but give me some thoughts on very little stretch pulling ropes. It "should" never see a shock load so elongation I think is my enemy in this case.
 
@monkeylove; Isn't that Amsteel stuff intended for such use, I thought? I think they advertise its use as a replacement for wire rope on a winch, don't they? It might be prohibitively expensive, though. I thought maybe because of its ridiculous strength ratings it might be possible to use a smaller, lighter, cheaper size of Amsteel rope to achieve the same strength rating.

Tim

Edit: Here's a link to the product on TreeStuff. I think there's a chart there that shows the relative strengths of the various sizes available, but my handheld computer's browser has a tough time seeing it well enough. The chart probably shows up fine on a desktop or laptop computer.

http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=1640#detail
 
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