JontreeHI
Branched out member
- Location
- West Michigan lakeshore
Cool diagram xman
Removal technique suggestions?
- Thread starter AW4130
- Start date
Jeff
Branched out member
- Location
- Marlborough, MA
Great graphics, Dave!
kstreehuggerco
Participating member
- Location
- Loveland. Co
Sweeeeet schematic!!!!
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
I like what David is suggesting but I'd likely combine it with a countryboypa's load transfer line to direct pieces away from the house. It'll make it easier to maneuver the pieces and lower them into a very specific drop zone. Determining the load bearing nature of the tree is the key to how big you'll go. Species, form, defects and health, all play into the assessment.
I would really carefully consider the removal though. If it's gone does this expose the house to trees further away that could cause even more damage? In some ways it's close proximity to the use may minimize the amount of damage it might do in the event of failure.
Take the opportunity to really assess the tree, hey, you're the expert right! Does anything suggest it's a hazard or is this just an unfounded fear on the part of your friend?
I would really carefully consider the removal though. If it's gone does this expose the house to trees further away that could cause even more damage? In some ways it's close proximity to the use may minimize the amount of damage it might do in the event of failure.
Take the opportunity to really assess the tree, hey, you're the expert right! Does anything suggest it's a hazard or is this just an unfounded fear on the part of your friend?
- Location
- Asheville N.C.
Dang JD, thanks for taking the time to do that awesome little diagram man. Really insightful. And I was actually just getting ready to order some more rings for the collection as well so that may just be perfect! Really appreciate this man!
- Location
- Asheville N.C.
It's definitely no rush on this. So every time I've hung out at his house I've been going up the hill to his cabin for a few minutes assessing/thinking about all things you listed here. It definitely crossed my mind as well that removal at this point may not be the best option for the well being of the whole area. Thank you for pointing all this out though!It's funny that X-man replied the way he did because I imagined him taking the time to do it just the way he did. Nice work, David. You're good like that! Something like that could be really helpful, but we don't know a few key things...importantly:
- What do you have for equipment?
- What is underneath the tree?
- Can you bomb sections right out with good hinge cut technique?
- What's the pruning history of the tree?
Using a GRCS with a skilled operator is a completely different game than a port-a-wrap. Do you have blocks?
With a GRCS, you could lift out the entire leader on the right side all in one shot. Not as effective with a porty and mechanical advantage with fiddle blocks. Also, while Oak is very strong and awesome for hinging wood, defects can make any tree fail. It looks like some previous crown raising cuts were made at some point.
- Were large limbs removed long ago leaving any cavities?
- Was there construction that altered the roots or root plate?
- Are there signs of decay inside the main stem...long fissures, cracks, etc?
I also like how Boomslang and Guy responded. Preservation is a good thing in some cases, because high levels of exposure can result from the removal. That's something I've often thrown out as food for thought to a lot of clients.
Perhaps the BEST thing an "arborist" could do is a full evaluation of the site, that tree, and the others nearby. If the one in question is within striking distance, there are apparently some others as well. Pruning weight out and reducing wind-age might be better for the investment, and a much lower cost proposition overall.
I wish I could do what David did and draw in all the pruning cuts I would make.
Best of luck with whatever you choose.
- Location
- Asheville N.C.
Very good point on the question of just an unfounded, or more or less, "paranoia" of the tree. Deal with that aloooooot around here. There is however a couple of cavitys that I have spotted from the ground from some old bad cuts which is a bummer and does have me slightly concerned about its structural integrity when it comes to rigging from it. It is oak so maybe I'm just being paranoid or overly cautious as well haha.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Good excuse for a climb. Check em out!
Treetopflyer
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Coastal N.J
Go up with a loppers ,pole clip and reduce the wind load a bit at the tips, call it done. Follow up with tree inspections while your at the cabin having a cold one with him every so often. Unless he's looking for firewood then there's no talking him out of it.
good points all.
yeah, strong trees near the house often catch other trees and keep them from smashing house.
looks like BIG cuts were taken off in the past.
I thought about a transfer/drift line too originally, but thought I'd complicate the drawing too much. Tree nearby has a good drift line rigging point if it was backed up with a redirect.
ONE picture does not give a good 3D viewing, so the tree could be structured differently than what it appeared as, so don't follow my take as an instruction book.
yeah, strong trees near the house often catch other trees and keep them from smashing house.
looks like BIG cuts were taken off in the past.
I thought about a transfer/drift line too originally, but thought I'd complicate the drawing too much. Tree nearby has a good drift line rigging point if it was backed up with a redirect.
ONE picture does not give a good 3D viewing, so the tree could be structured differently than what it appeared as, so don't follow my take as an instruction book.
Redtree
Participating member
- Location
- Mt. Albert
I agree with guy and treetop flyer. Reduce the tree.
Possibly even a few 3-4 inch cuts up at the top on the first pruning application. Backed up with several 2-3 inch cuts.
Then check back in two to five years. Two years from the ground and five for a climb/prune. If 3-4 inch cuts are made on first application then restoration type pruning in combination with reduction for the second pruning application.
However it's done reduction reduces risk of failure at the bottom. Also looks like the forest setting involves a lot of complexity. Removal lets the wind come through the hole in the canopy, just discreetly, but still adding forces to remaining trees. Sometimes discreetly is enough.
Plus what Guy said. Nearby risk tree protection.
What about a guy wire? In conjunction with reduction?
Possibly even a few 3-4 inch cuts up at the top on the first pruning application. Backed up with several 2-3 inch cuts.
Then check back in two to five years. Two years from the ground and five for a climb/prune. If 3-4 inch cuts are made on first application then restoration type pruning in combination with reduction for the second pruning application.
However it's done reduction reduces risk of failure at the bottom. Also looks like the forest setting involves a lot of complexity. Removal lets the wind come through the hole in the canopy, just discreetly, but still adding forces to remaining trees. Sometimes discreetly is enough.
Plus what Guy said. Nearby risk tree protection.
What about a guy wire? In conjunction with reduction?
- Location
- Asheville N.C.
Very good points and suggestion as well, thank you for that! And I will discuss a guy wire idea with him as well.
- Location
- Asheville N.C.
Definitely!
Redtree
Participating member
- Location
- Mt. Albert
Here's a infl
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Redtree
Participating member
- Location
- Mt. Albert
Here's a prescription to go on:
Walk around the building foundation with an arm pointing on a 45 degree angle up and away from the house. Any limb or stem 3 inches or larger that you cross, is to be strategically reduced/thinned with cuts 2.5 inch diameter and under. Come back in 2-5 years to re evaluate and apply restore/reduce/thin application
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Walk around the building foundation with an arm pointing on a 45 degree angle up and away from the house. Any limb or stem 3 inches or larger that you cross, is to be strategically reduced/thinned with cuts 2.5 inch diameter and under. Come back in 2-5 years to re evaluate and apply restore/reduce/thin application
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
- Location
- Asheville N.C.
If it's not too troublesome, could you elaborate on this a little bit more? I kind of understand... But I don't think I'm tracking with you 100% on this. Very interested though.
Redtree
Participating member
- Location
- Mt. Albert
Ya I was thinking out loud.
stand with your back against the building at any spot and draw an imaginary line through the air at 45 degrees . then shuffle your way around the building taking note of all trees that are in falling range and reduce them. This does not mean to create a void of trees in this area, it just means to reduce anything in that area. Or at least the trees that are showing a higher than acceptable risk. The worst tree is not necessarily the closest. But the closest is more capable of worse damage should it fail.
It's really just a round about way at saying: walk around the place and check for failure potential and decide what to reduce.
The tricky part is deciding what is risky, then deciding where reduction cuts will be made. Basically the dose is hard to nail. You might reduce it lightly, leaving a tree that will hold up to average storms and then only get average storms while you own the place. On the other hand you may reduce heavily and get a tornado that knocks it down anyway.
So you have to coordinate dose with how bad the next bad storm is. Good luck.
I think it comes down to being practical. Several cuts 1-2.5 inches which reduces the overall shape will reduce the likelihood of failure. But apply it to the whole tree or trees in question, not just on the building side.
Once dose is figured out there is one more tricky part, the execution. Pole pruners hand saws and a high but safe tie in.
I did a similar group of oaks. 70-80 feet tall. I was able to work in five trees without coming down. Was a good day. More deadwooding than reduction. But at least the retrenchment (growing inwards) was started, as the trees react to sun coming to the inner canopy and dare I say leading tips are divided and slowed with the removal of lead buds (heading back). Years down the road, after several reduce/thin jobs the tree may be the same height or shorter while still bigger in diameter, instead of taller and more vulnerable.
Sometimes a branch can be headed instead of removed. This feels unnatural but look at what Mother Nature does with ice-sometimes a near perfect dose of reduction. Seriously though, there are a few trees better off after the ice. The lucky ones that broke at 3 inches and under. Not pretty but safer once hangers are out.
Now I'm thinking out loud again
Goodnight
stand with your back against the building at any spot and draw an imaginary line through the air at 45 degrees . then shuffle your way around the building taking note of all trees that are in falling range and reduce them. This does not mean to create a void of trees in this area, it just means to reduce anything in that area. Or at least the trees that are showing a higher than acceptable risk. The worst tree is not necessarily the closest. But the closest is more capable of worse damage should it fail.
It's really just a round about way at saying: walk around the place and check for failure potential and decide what to reduce.
The tricky part is deciding what is risky, then deciding where reduction cuts will be made. Basically the dose is hard to nail. You might reduce it lightly, leaving a tree that will hold up to average storms and then only get average storms while you own the place. On the other hand you may reduce heavily and get a tornado that knocks it down anyway.
So you have to coordinate dose with how bad the next bad storm is. Good luck.
I think it comes down to being practical. Several cuts 1-2.5 inches which reduces the overall shape will reduce the likelihood of failure. But apply it to the whole tree or trees in question, not just on the building side.
Once dose is figured out there is one more tricky part, the execution. Pole pruners hand saws and a high but safe tie in.
I did a similar group of oaks. 70-80 feet tall. I was able to work in five trees without coming down. Was a good day. More deadwooding than reduction. But at least the retrenchment (growing inwards) was started, as the trees react to sun coming to the inner canopy and dare I say leading tips are divided and slowed with the removal of lead buds (heading back). Years down the road, after several reduce/thin jobs the tree may be the same height or shorter while still bigger in diameter, instead of taller and more vulnerable.
Sometimes a branch can be headed instead of removed. This feels unnatural but look at what Mother Nature does with ice-sometimes a near perfect dose of reduction. Seriously though, there are a few trees better off after the ice. The lucky ones that broke at 3 inches and under. Not pretty but safer once hangers are out.
Now I'm thinking out loud again
Goodnight
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
put a leash on the tree. Go up in tree in question and use a downgraded climbing line or something heavier if the owner wants to spring for it. Tie a bowline leaving enough space for stem growth at about 2/3 rds from ground to top of the tree above a crotch. Since it is woods I am sure you can find a tree opposite it maybe 30 to 40 feet away. Go up it with the leash line and find a solid stable crotch a little lower than the tree in question tie off.
Tie another bowline in that tree again leaving enough space for stem diameter growth and leave enough slack so the tree is just caught at the end of its outward swing and the movement of the tree in question is halted from getting out of bounds and possibly failing. This is the whole concept of the elastic cabling systems which are an elaborate hoax perpetrated on the arborist community at large in my opinion.
Tie another bowline in that tree again leaving enough space for stem diameter growth and leave enough slack so the tree is just caught at the end of its outward swing and the movement of the tree in question is halted from getting out of bounds and possibly failing. This is the whole concept of the elastic cabling systems which are an elaborate hoax perpetrated on the arborist community at large in my opinion.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
"the closest is more capable of worse damage should it fail."? Ummmmmm really?
The 45-degree method removes all overhang, and way beyond; seems excessive. I work on and retain a lot of limbs over houses, while securing those investments against failure.
The 45-degree method removes all overhang, and way beyond; seems excessive. I work on and retain a lot of limbs over houses, while securing those investments against failure.
Redtree
Participating member
- Location
- Mt. Albert
Like I said, don't remove what is in the 45 degrees and higher area, instead reduce it. I'm always teaching clients that branches over the roof are good. Save shingles from curl and keep cool. Depending on the tree, I'd rather a crown of a tree 50 feet away hit my house than a stem of a tree 10 feet away acting like a nut cracker
New threads New posts
-
test
-
Free CEUs: February 05 & March 05 - 'Urban Forestry Today' Webcasts @ Noon (Eastern)- Started by UFT
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
-
-
