Reckless indifference

Well Jeff, I think it's agreed that you nailed what we were all groping for... social responsibility.

It's funny how an ape like you can come up with that pearl of wisdom while all us great minds were wallowing in civil and criminal responsibility.
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Ok, Blinky, I realize you think I brown nosed. Not my intent. I just felt that a response was due but didn't have the time or energy and felt Tom's post covered it.

Alas, you didn't read that story did you, Here's some key points from it,

"Ward did have rock climbing experience, Gibbs found, but it was not recent. “In his teens, he climbed with friends at several popular single-pitch sport cliffs in Henderson County. And while rare, he occasionally participated in more advanced mountaineering.

“In 1992, Ward did a three-pitch climb with a guide while on a vacation in Wyoming. In 1995, he climbed a Fourteener with a guide in Colorado. This required intermediate climbing skills. Most of the ascent was off-belay.

“The decedent’s family reports that Ward quit the sport entirely in 1995 after graduating college. He didn’t climb again until Justin Morgan invited him on the Hell’s Angel ascent.”


You seem to have thought that the victim had climbed this several times with these guys. Not the case at all. The other three had. Morgan assumed a leadership role first by making the invitation then by his ensuing actions.

Morgan kept asking Ward and "trashed-talked" the guy when he wouldn't go. He finally relented. It says the three guys, Morgan, Bishop and Martin had climbed the route 4 times and and had extensive experience compared to Ward who hadn't climbed in 13 yrs.

Here's where Morgan really assumes a leadership role.

“Bishop and Martin said that there was some miscommunication about the difficulty of Hell’s Angel. They said that on the morning of the climb, Morgan told the decedent that it was an easy climb. Morgan characterized it as ‘mostly a scramble,’ not a technical ascent. Neither Bishop nor Martin clarified or contradicted these statements to the decedent, although both knew them to be misleading."

and,

"Before starting the climb, Ward asked Morgan if he needed a pair for Hell’s Angel. Bishop and Martin said Morgan replied in the negative, indicating that the climb was sufficiently easy and that tennis shoes would be adequate."

I could go on but I think the point is made. If it goes to trial then a jury of his peers will decide if his actions go beyond "social responsibility" and into the realm of legal responsibility. That is the total of it. the cop and the judge felt there was sufficient evidence for that to occur.

Blinky, your rant at me is unfounded. I have a life, a job, hobbies and I really don't need or want a puppy.

Camping, hiking, canoeing, climbing with the guys, been there done that. When I did things that were beyond my skill level I did look to get some guidance from those with more experience. When I had be invited to try something new and dangerous I got leadership from those that made the invitation. Never did they diminish the risk nor downplay it. If it was best done with specific equipment it was strongly suggested I get it. If I didn't then it was my choice.

I've witness a climbing death that was the fault of the victim. I felt badly for the person supervising the group but knew that it was poor judgment on the victim's part. I've slacked on safety a long time ago and it caught up with me. I live with the resulting injuries and chronic pain. I was shown what to do and I didn't do it. My bad judgment.

I climb for a living and take plenty of calculated risks but where I may have a leadership role to play with someone who has limited skills and experience then I take that seriously. I really don't want anymore "regret" tapes playing.

Yeah life is dangerous and it is well worth the risks to experience the thrills but a man needs to know his limits and his cohorts need to respect them.
 
why do i got to be an ape? i think you must mean that in a planet of the apes way; where the apes are a lot smarter than the humans. if you mean it that way then yes i'm an ape. if you mean i climb as well as an ape then i'm down with that, but there is no way i'll be called an ape any other way and take that laying down. don't make me call big boy in the avatar and have him lay the smack down with one of those guitars over your head.
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by the way boo--yah!
 
Tree humper I oft enjoy your rational in threads that lack a concise focus but I am disturbed by the following...

"I really don't need or want a puppy."

Surely you jest????

There must be something amiss in your universe to want to make such an outlandish statement......to the powers that be....I will gladly accept the puppy that TH rejects.
 
Thanks Sean. My wife has 5 cats and we don't have any time to tend to the needs of a dog on top of that. I've looked after a kennel of beagles, had a couple of my own, it's just not practical for me at this point. I will gladly forward any puppies coming my way to you. What's the quarantine requirements down under?
 
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I will gladly forward any puppies coming my way to you. What's the quarantine requirements down under?

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Well over the top sadly...Beagles are great fun
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Me and Leon (my pitbull) will now stroll out of this thread, sorry for the derail.
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[ QUOTE ]
why do i got to be an ape? i think you must mean that in a planet of the apes way; where the apes are a lot smarter than the humans. if you mean it that way then yes i'm an ape. if you mean i climb as well as an ape then i'm down with that, but there is no way i'll be called an ape any other way and take that laying down. don't make me call big boy in the avatar and have him lay the smack down with one of those guitars over your head.
ooo.gif

by the way boo--yah!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm... good question. Could be because of your avatar, which is sorta neanderthal-ish. Could be because of your powerful climbing skills which are chimpanzee-like... could be because I'm on an ape thing, I compared Jesse to brachiating gibbon a while back.

But really, I think it's because you're big, strong and hairy but still sorta cute... in an australopithecine kind of way.

Think of it as your basic back-handed complement.
 
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