Question to Ponder

[treebing]

How do you lanyard in to make a cut when your way out on a limb? I've never understood how that is done.

 

[Mark13y]

How do you lanyard in to make a cut when your way out on a limb? I've never understood how that is done.

If the limb isn't going to support me if my primary system was compromised then I'm not tied in twice-which is obviously where the DRT is going to shine. I have in some instances threw on a quick prussic with one of my redirect slings and slid it up my SRT line as far as I could reach and lanyard into that, still not two tie ins but more security then nothing.

 

[TreeLogic]

Blades and ropes... On the one hand you have the many of us who've had to cut off a section of rope, and maybe it took a number of strokes with a not-so-sharp tool. Plus, we have some pretty bad a$$ tough ropes. But let me say, and I know from experience, it's a different story when your rope is loaded. I nicked a rigging rope once (can't remember what kind). Was getting the long tip of a limb away from a roof to remove the whole limb, rigging with strap and biner, and accidentally dragged my handsaw across the loaded rope, and it just let go. I couldn't believe how quickly. Nothing got hurt (thank goodness) and I learned from it. Anyway, loaded and unloaded ropes react totally differently to blades.

 

[ARLO]

Interesting stuff. I think big wall climbing/aid climbing needs a place in this discussion. Most of the original single line gear and techniques come from big wall climbing. Also in caving you are pretty much always using or placing fixed anchors of some kind. In tree climbing we have the luxury of using lots of different gear. We pick and choose depending on the situation. In caving they want the least amount of gear possible, and strive to make it work in any situation they might encounter. These discussions r great because the crossover between these activities spurs innovation and learning across the board.( my neighbors are into caving and we have traded tips and gear many times)

Sherwood,
I think you are correct about the close relationship between rock climbing and SRT in trees, at least that was my experience. When I first started doing SRT in trees in 1972-1973 I did not know any cavers, but I did know some rock climbers and I copied them. They used Jumars to jug up walls with the Texas method, and that was the first method I ever used for SRT in trees. However, I would certainly give cavers credit for developing most of the more advanced ropewalker methods that people use to get up big trees.

 

[Tony]

Arlo,
Thanks for chiming in! Good to hear from somebody with your depth of experience. As climbers we all steel a bit!

Picasso said it best: "Good artists copy, great artists steal." To take something and make it our own. The mark of professionals.

The original question was really for the reasons I stated above, but also to split hairs and look at how and why and from whence it all came. I also feel that rock climbers get to much credit for our tree systems. I think they resemble other disciplines more, but get lumped into "rock" since it is more popular.

As an aside, if you have any early pictures of your tree SRT methods that would be cool!

Kevin,
I too struggled with the question of where to tie in on those long limb walks. I think your internal argument was the same as yours, "well if it ain't gunna hold me, then why?" A valid point, but I came to realize something else. Just the action of thinking about a second tie in, caused me to look closer, to evaluate, a touch more, my actions.

In then end, I find myself usually always placing the lanyard. Sometimes for the rational reason of possible main line compromise, or perhaps to increase my stability, limit possible swing. However, I have learned that for me it is more important from a mental standpoint. Just looking for a place to use the lanyard, just having that internal conversation helps keep me aware.

Perhaps, for me anyway, the action could be part security, part mnemonic device. Just like when I was learning to shoot a rifle. To this day, I silently whisper "squeeeeezeeee" as I take back on the trigger slowly release my breath, imagining the tip of my index finger being pulled into my right pupil as I stare down the target through the sights.

Tony

 

[oceans]

Arlo,
Picasso said it best: "Good artists copy, great artists steal." To take something and make it our own. The mark of professionals.

I think Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin said the same thing about musicians, which means he actually stole the phrase from an artist of another time and discipline, which makes him great! I wonder who Picasso stole it from...

 

[oceans]

I think about this lanyard situation as well. For me, it's a matter of holding position for stability, rather than holding my life if I mess up with the tool in hand. A foot loop comes in handy in thin wood like that (as I'm sure you all know), where proper cuts are desired. I have to admit, sometimes I think about what it would look like if my primary system failed while secured into a wispy branch with a lanyard/foot loop. Pretty sure I'd be going down, quick. That being said, on most occasions, the thinner the limb, the less deadly the tool. It's a positive feedback loop...thinner wood, smaller tool.

I wonder what situations cagers can get into that mirror those of our industry. If they're trying to leave "no trace", they must be going through great measures to anchor without bolts in certain place. I don't know, but I can bet a drill could cause some damage to a tight rope.

 

[treebing]

When climbing srt, I only lanyard in when I need it for work positioning. Otherwise I do very poorly with the reminding myself to tie in twice. Rarely occurs when I'm trying to do production. Painfully slow and tedious.
I think that is the big difference, between rock climbers and cavers etc. production. The sheer quantity of trees that an arborist goes through. Very few cavers are in caves everyday although I'm sure they exist. I read a national geographic article about these guys exploring caves in mexico. They do a lot of up and down

 

[DSMc]

When climbing srt, I only lanyard in when I need it for work positioning. Otherwise I do very poorly with the reminding myself to tie in twice. Rarely occurs when I'm trying to do production. Painfully slow and tedious.
I think that is the big difference, between rock climbers and cavers etc. production. The sheer quantity of trees that an arborist goes through. Very few cavers are in caves everyday although I'm sure they exist. I read a national geographic article about these guys exploring caves in mexico. They do a lot of up and down

Thanks Kevin, you finally posted something I can agree with you on. Simultaneous work and movement is the signature of production tree work and what separates us from all other rope disciplines. Even though we can trace the similarities of other rope workers and climbers, it is this constant, fluid movement while work is being done that keeps us separate and unique. It is why we have developed our own climbing style and tools. In fact, the only thing we truly have in common with industrial rope access and other rope climbers is the fact that we all use rope.

The quote below is from an IRATA Technical Report in 2012 on the various tools and techniques when used in work situations as opposed to EN tests. This is a significant finding when you compare it to the amount of time spent at a work station/per cut on a crown cleaning on a typical day in the trees for tree workers. If we had to lock down our position for every cut that was made, nothing would ever get done.

"The testing and investigation programme found the following significant issues:
Time and Motion
 The time and motion questionnaire indicates that much more time is spent suspended on ropes at the site of the work than doing rope manoeuvres (e.g. descending, ascending or climbing) to get to or from the work site. An average of over 90% of time was spent at the actual location of the works."

Also note, that the above findings determined that the workers were in suspension at the work site. Though we are too, we are also in supportive contact with the tree and rarely hanging in free space during a cutting procedure.

 

[treehumper]

How do you lanyard in to make a cut when your way out on a limb? I've never understood how that is done.

When I've been in this situation and the limb isn't particularly supportive, I've used my lanyard to draw the limb to me creating a tension between the TIP and the lanyard with me in between. It may be a quick loop around the limb with the lanyard to keep it in place. In some cases I won't use a lanyard but use my feet and or hands to do the same thing, in essence, pulling up against my downward load.