Problem With Body Thrusting

joesoup

joesoup

Location
Macon Georgia, USA
I have only recently been climbing using DRT with a traditional style and a split tail style. I am having problems using the modified body thrust described in the Climber's Companion. What is the method and best equip. for this type of climbing? My main problem is with the foot loop I made using webbing. It does not advance well at all, and I can't seem to make any progress up the tree. I have not tried footlocking, but am curious if any of you guys can give me any advice on this particular manuver.

Also, I am leaning really hard on buying some Blue Streak, any opinions on this rope? The rope I am using now is very similar to arborJunk... I mean plex, and I am not trying to get above 5-10' until I buy some good arborist line.

Please help guys, I am trying to be as safe as I can but still teach myself, cause lessons/training are not an option at this time. /forum/images/graemlins/zbanghead.gif
 
What hitch are you using to attach the sling?
Is it 1" nylon or 5/8" Spectra?

Try adding or subtracting wraps. Keep the splice out of the wraps.

My preference is the klemheist, p. 87. To get it to work smoothly you need to tie it very neatly. Spiral the webbing down and make sure there aren't any twists. Thread the upper wraps through the lower bight. Make sure everything is flat and the bight snugs up close to the rope. Look at illustration #3. With webbing I would want the bight that comes in on the left wrapped around just a little more. Over at the 3 o'clock position in the illustration.

When you reach down to slide the K up, pop the bight with your thumb. Slide it up and pop it back.

The Pantin is a wonderful tool. Worth the money.

In rock climbing there is a style of climbing called double rope where two seperate ropes are used to secure the climber. It isn't too popular in the US, more common in Europe. Since arbos use one rope that is "doubled" over an anchor a better description of our style of climbing is "doubled rope technique" or DdRT. I know, I know, this might be pedantic. Shigo admonishes us to define our terms and I think that this works for ropes as well as trees.
 
Hey Tom,

I am trying out that Darned Ole Mule tape I told you about. It is good only for accesories as far as I can see. I have some 1" nylon I can try if you think that would work better.

How about the Blue Streak, have you used it much Tom?
 
Since you're tying your own webbing loops you can make a stirrup. Get a piece of plastic tubing and slip the webbing through before you tie the ends. To make an even better stirrup tie the loop like on page 91 and adjust the loop to capture the tubing.

After reading about the Mule tape I wonder if it might be too slippery for a footloop. Since it's fabricated to slip through conduit you might be working at cross purposes.

Blue Streak is good rope. My preference is for XTC though. I've found it to be a very stable rope that wears really well. Not to make things any more confusing but you might consider Blaze. It's an 11mm rope. There are already some posts on the 11mm ropes.

ps See the fellow in the pic on p. 41, that's Jeff's Dad :)
 
Well Tom the problem with the mule tape is that is cinches down way too tight. I didn't think that would happen. I like the idea of the stirrup, i'll have to try that one. Thanks for the help.

What features of the XTC do you prefer over other ropes, and why 11mm over 1/2"
 
The cinching isn't a big surprise either. Since it's narrow and thin [and meant to grab cable :) ] it will be a problem. You could try more wraps before you abandon it though.

XTC has always been a stable rope. Cut it off the spool and start climbing. No milking. It doesn't pick or poof. IN fact it seems to stay cleaner than other ropes. This might be my imagination but it almost seems like it has a stay-clean coating or something. Other 16 strand ropes that I've used look worn after being used. Extreme fuzziness or lots of pics. With XTC it seems like the only time that they get retired is when they get nicked or abused in some odd way.

When Fly came out I was an instant convert. About 2/3 the weight and volume. Now there are other ropes in the 11mm arena. Blaze is performing well for me. It seems to have a good rep among other climbers too. The one major consideration is the smaller diameter. Using grippy gloves will reduce the possibility of getting achey forearms. If the climbing style used will mean that the climber will be pulling themselves up the rope there is the possibility that there might be forearm splints or tennis elbow.
 
joesoup, I've been climbing since last October. I guess about as long as you. I started with the bodythrust and a tautline hitch. I had problems with the hitch getting so tight I could barely move it, plus the line on the splittail always ran out to the figure of 8 on the end, causing the hitch to move farther away from me. The body thrust seemed to only work on fairly straight trees. As son as I need to ascend a tree with some lean to it or ascend farther away from the trunk, the body thrust just wouldn’t work for me.

Now I use the Petzrl pantin, as Tom, suggests. It’s a great tool. You strap it around your boot, clip it on the rope, and then ascend like you were footlocking. Once in the tree I can unclip it from the rope or leave it attached (so that I can stand on it for support). I never take it off my boot, and it doesn’t interfere with climbing or walking on limbs. I have foot loops but never use them now that I have the pantin.

For a knot, I now use a Tenex Eye & Eye Prusik Cord, the dark red/burgundy one with the higher melting point, and a French Prusik knot. What a great knot! There’s an example of it in the Tree Climber. I think around page 67, but I don’t have the book with me to verify. (Also of the pantin.) The knots ties in and stays close to the saddle and below my hands, which I like, move moves up the rope easily, grabs great, and releases easily.

I have a Trango cinch on order now (thanks to help of Tom Dunlap and this forum) to use as a backup safety device.

This is a great forum with bunch of very helpful guys. Thanks to everyone.

Jim
 
Hey joesoup,

Thats a nice picture you've got there in your avatar, even if old "Smokey" looks a little less than elated in the full-sized version. I was wondering what in the heck was making the pages take about a minute and a half to load... So long as the avatars are only shown 80 pixels maximum in either dimension, maybe you'd be so kind as to replace yours with the one I've attached here. It'll drop from 1600x1200 pixels at 491813 bytes to the proper aspect ratio of 80x60 at an extremely more comfortable 13430 bytes.

In terms of the subject of your thread, I've been climbing since some time last summer. My first experience with a saddle and rope was a 35' ascent hanging in the middle of nowhere and I very much disliked trying to footlock with that configuration. Footlocking itself wasn't so bad, but what with the friction, my 2:1 advantage was a lot closer to 1:1, and I merely ended up climbing twice the rope.

Ever since then I've footlocked a single rope or, more commonly a double rope. I really can't see the advantage to getting into the tree using the "conventional" method.

Thanks,
Glen
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I now use a Tenex Eye & Eye Prusik Cord, the dark red/burgundy one with the higher melting point,

[/ QUOTE ]

If you got the cord from Sherrill (and, I think, from most arborist suppliers) the Tenex is yellow--at least the 3/8ths Tenex that is typically used for a split tail. The burgundy cord with the higher melting point is Ultra tech (third generation). As Tom said, we need to accurately define our terms--and our gear!



[ QUOTE ]
...and a French Prusik knot. What a great knot! There’s an example of it in the Tree Climber...

[/ QUOTE ]

Two of the variants of the French Prusik (as well as several other climbing hitches) are described, with photos, right here in the 'Articles' section of this website. Click on 'Articles' in the menu bar at the very top of the page and then on 'An Overview of Climbing Hitches'. It is a PDF file that you can download and print.

Mahk
 
Mahk,

Thanks for that great article. Thanks Tom and Mark for the other fine articles.

Dan
 
Thanks Guys

Yous Guys is Great,

Hey, I really appreciate all the feedback. What with being in the middle of pine country, the climbing scene here is pretty much limited to the Pros. The help of all your experiences and input(**Plus the TCC) has really given me a great start. Hopefully I can say hey in person to some of you guys in Nashville this summer and really am looking forward to that event!!!

Most importantly this sport has given me a new-found respect for the trees that give us all O2!! And to realize what an impact they have on our environment. I even find myself looking at trees driving down the road all the time.

Be good guys and thanks again


Joe
 
Re: Thanks Guys

I even find myself looking at trees driving down the road all the time.

Joe,

That's the first step in the downward slide to become a tree addict :) We all have it. The people who ride with us aren't very tolerant of us running onto the shoulder or crossing lines.

Another step is when you're out in the wilderness and you get the dreamy look in your eye, and you get caught :)

Do you have a Sherrill/Bailey's/Fresco catalog? You will...and they'll get dog eared and maybe a bit water logged from sitting so close to the shower.
 
Re: Thanks Guys

Oh Yeah,

and the wife thinks I am crazy cause I let our Pomeranian get knocked up so I
can sell the puppies for gear money!!

I guess that is pretty sad huh?
/forum/images/graemlins/9lame.gif
 
Mark Adams, thanks for the correction. My mistake. I had checked the Sherrill site before posting, but mistook the Tenex Eye & Eye Prusik Cord displayed in the picture (which was a burgundy/red color – probably an old picture) as the one I ordered because that was the only one displayed as a result of my search. Not good, anyway.

After your post, I went back to Sherrill and checked by item number (I have a new one still in its packaging). What I use is the burgundy/red with black striping Ultra Tech Eye & Eye Prusik Cord 5/16” x 30” (#22176).

The variation of the Prusik that I use is the Valdôtain tresse. After looking at the climbing hitches pdf that you pointed out, I’m thinking of trying the Knut hitch. I did some testing with it, and while it seems to not move quite as easily up the line as the Valdôtain tresse, it does seem to grab a little better/quicker. I’d appreciate anyone’s thoughts on that.

Again, thanks for pointing that out. That could be dangerous. I apologize to all.

Jim
 
Re: Thanks Guys

So, I'm not the only kook that runs onto the shoulder looking at trees! /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif Catalogs by the john too.
 
Re: Thanks Guys

[ QUOTE ]
So, I'm not the only kook that runs onto the shoulder looking at trees! /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif Catalogs by the john too.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahaha i do that all the time, if i'm not looking at power lines and distribution automation devices i'm looking at trees that should come down or crappy jobs done by locals.

Listen to tom, but heres my .02 i use blue streak and i love it course havent used anything else so take that at what its worth. also the method your describing i have been doing to build up muscle since its (from what i understand)one of the most physically demanding types of ascending, foot-locking is not as easy as it is in the book, i'm ordering a pantin this week.
 
TinMan,

Do you footlock over a doubled rope, or footlock using SRT?
I am trying to become adept at DdRT. I also think my saddle
is going to be a problem, it is a weaver 1035 with the butt
strap, not individual leg straps. Would this also make a big
difference with DdRT while thrusting?
 
Re: TinMan,

Footlocking is easier over a doubled rope. More meat to grab on to. On taller trees, I will footlock the single line.

I think your saddle will be fine with either thrusting OR footlocking, though IMO, individual straps are better.

love
nick
 
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