Lumberjack
Branched out member
Re: PM, Effer or Palfinger
Mark, what's the advantage of a 10 sided boom?
Mark, what's the advantage of a 10 sided boom?
PM Or Effer
- Thread starter classictruckman
- Start date
classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
Re: PM, Effer or Palfinger
[ QUOTE ]
Don't rule out something until you have really researched it well. This is a big investment and you want to get it as close to right as you can.
[/ QUOTE ] To be honest I hadn't looked that small, I really don't want to go smaller than 305000 ft.lbs. of lifting moment, that said, I haven't ruled anything out yet.
I'm planning on buying the truck in the summer and mounting the knuckleboom during the winter.
[ QUOTE ]
Don't rule out something until you have really researched it well. This is a big investment and you want to get it as close to right as you can.
[/ QUOTE ] To be honest I hadn't looked that small, I really don't want to go smaller than 305000 ft.lbs. of lifting moment, that said, I haven't ruled anything out yet.
I'm planning on buying the truck in the summer and mounting the knuckleboom during the winter.
allmark
Participating member
Re: PM, Effer or Palfinger
Its a stronger boom design than using same material in a v bottom/top type of boom.I think it also alows for more boom deflection.
Its a stronger boom design than using same material in a v bottom/top type of boom.I think it also alows for more boom deflection.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
Re: PM, Effer or Palfinger
[ QUOTE ]
To be honest I hadn't looked that small, I really don't want to go smaller than 305000 ft.lbs. of lifting moment
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what the amounts to. What is your target working radius and target lift capacity at that max working radius?
For example, I currently sub a 40tonner stick boom. He's got 1,200lbs at 100'. He can pick 700 at 115'. And pretty much that reaches a vast majority of trees on a property over here in my neck of the woods.
For a K-boom, it seems to be equal to a 85tm set up to match those capacities I mentioned above.
So, with that said, how many meter ton k-boom are you looking at James?
[ QUOTE ]
To be honest I hadn't looked that small, I really don't want to go smaller than 305000 ft.lbs. of lifting moment
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what the amounts to. What is your target working radius and target lift capacity at that max working radius?
For example, I currently sub a 40tonner stick boom. He's got 1,200lbs at 100'. He can pick 700 at 115'. And pretty much that reaches a vast majority of trees on a property over here in my neck of the woods.
For a K-boom, it seems to be equal to a 85tm set up to match those capacities I mentioned above.
So, with that said, how many meter ton k-boom are you looking at James?
- Location
- Longmont, CO
Re: PM, Effer or Palfinger
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't seriously looked at Palfinger because they do not have a jib in the smaller models. The PM model I am thinking about is a PM 48, the Palfinger that matches it only has a 55' hydraulic outreach and doesn't offer a Jib.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then theXman said, "what, even my 29m/t palfinger comes with a fly jib option."
Then classic said
[ QUOTE ]
To be honest I hadn't looked that small, I really don't want to go smaller than 305000 ft.lbs. of lifting moment, that said, I haven't ruled anything out yet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I really don't have time to be doing this, but I did it anyway. I downloaded every brochure from Palfinger from the size 44 m/t (the size you are looking at) to the 150m/t to see what is up with no fly jib option.
Just as I thought every size I looked at had the option of fly jib. 44m/t, 60m/t, 74m/t, 85m/t, 100m/t and 150m/t.
the 44m/t with long fly jib option is good for 101 foot sidereach, fully horizontal capacity at 463lbs. Vertical it reaches about 114 feet. Looks like picks up around 8000 to 10,000lbs at the side of the truck. 307,380ftlbs crane.
Boy, you like to pull things out of your rear.
Or were you somehow misguided by some bad literature or person?
Every now and then I let up and try to be nice to you Classic, but you always end up saying something that MAKES me hate you. (Well, not hate, but I just wanted it to sound bad).
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't seriously looked at Palfinger because they do not have a jib in the smaller models. The PM model I am thinking about is a PM 48, the Palfinger that matches it only has a 55' hydraulic outreach and doesn't offer a Jib.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then theXman said, "what, even my 29m/t palfinger comes with a fly jib option."
Then classic said
[ QUOTE ]
To be honest I hadn't looked that small, I really don't want to go smaller than 305000 ft.lbs. of lifting moment, that said, I haven't ruled anything out yet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I really don't have time to be doing this, but I did it anyway. I downloaded every brochure from Palfinger from the size 44 m/t (the size you are looking at) to the 150m/t to see what is up with no fly jib option.
Just as I thought every size I looked at had the option of fly jib. 44m/t, 60m/t, 74m/t, 85m/t, 100m/t and 150m/t.
the 44m/t with long fly jib option is good for 101 foot sidereach, fully horizontal capacity at 463lbs. Vertical it reaches about 114 feet. Looks like picks up around 8000 to 10,000lbs at the side of the truck. 307,380ftlbs crane.
Boy, you like to pull things out of your rear.
Every now and then I let up and try to be nice to you Classic, but you always end up saying something that MAKES me hate you. (Well, not hate, but I just wanted it to sound bad).
Re: PM Or Effer Or Palfinger
[ QUOTE ]
I'm looking hard at knuckle booms, I've spent a bit of time looking at PM, but I have never seen an Effer in person.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how hard you have been looking. But I pulled up spec charts on Effer, Palfinger and Pre Menstrual (PM).
Here's what I found. Now, I spent about an hour on it and I'm relying on info and calculations I made from the capacity charts and I think I should be accurate up to about 5 pounds.
Palfinger 44002 (44 metric ton crane)
vs.
Effer 440 (I'm assuming it's 44 metric ton crane, but the dang literature never says 44m/t crane).
vs.
PM 44m/t crane.
Lets look at horizontal reach and capacities for each of these cranes. Horizontal is as it says, in a horizontal orientation, which is shorter reach than vertical on a k-boom and this position is it's weakest capacity verses any lift above horizontal.
The Palfinger with fly jib reaches 101 feet.
The Effer reaches with fly jib 96 feet 4".
The PM reaches with fly jib only 80 feet 1".
Palfinger the winner here.
Effer 2nd.
PM 3rd.
-------------
Alright. lets move down to the 96' 4" of the Effer.
The Palfinger at 96' 4" capacity is 961 lbs.
The Effer at 96' 4", the capacity is 760 lbs.
The crappy PM can't reach that far.
Alright, Palfinger won here.
Effer 2nd.
PM 3rd.
------------
Lets move to the short 80 feet mark.
The Palfinger at 80 feet horizontal capacity is 1642 lbs.
The Effer at the 80 feet horizontal, capacity is 981 lbs.
The PM at the 80 feet horizontal, capacity is 1320 lbs
Palfinger won here.
PM is actually 2nd here.
Effer 3rd here.
-----------------
Alright, actaul dead weights of the cranes.
Effer, I believe it is 13,910 lbs.
Palfinger, only shows the base 44ton crane's weight, 9030 lbs.(so I don't know what it is with the fly jib, I'd like to know)
PM, I can't find any info on the actual dead weight (maybe they don't want you to know
)
------------
yeah, I think you should get a PM knuckleboom Classic. You've been looking at them hard. It would fit you well. Or get some generic made in China knucklboom, that would fit you even better.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm looking hard at knuckle booms, I've spent a bit of time looking at PM, but I have never seen an Effer in person.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how hard you have been looking. But I pulled up spec charts on Effer, Palfinger and Pre Menstrual (PM).
Here's what I found. Now, I spent about an hour on it and I'm relying on info and calculations I made from the capacity charts and I think I should be accurate up to about 5 pounds.
Palfinger 44002 (44 metric ton crane)
vs.
Effer 440 (I'm assuming it's 44 metric ton crane, but the dang literature never says 44m/t crane).
vs.
PM 44m/t crane.
Lets look at horizontal reach and capacities for each of these cranes. Horizontal is as it says, in a horizontal orientation, which is shorter reach than vertical on a k-boom and this position is it's weakest capacity verses any lift above horizontal.
The Palfinger with fly jib reaches 101 feet.
The Effer reaches with fly jib 96 feet 4".
The PM reaches with fly jib only 80 feet 1".
Palfinger the winner here.
Effer 2nd.
PM 3rd.
-------------
Alright. lets move down to the 96' 4" of the Effer.
The Palfinger at 96' 4" capacity is 961 lbs.
The Effer at 96' 4", the capacity is 760 lbs.
The crappy PM can't reach that far.
Alright, Palfinger won here.
Effer 2nd.
PM 3rd.
------------
Lets move to the short 80 feet mark.
The Palfinger at 80 feet horizontal capacity is 1642 lbs.
The Effer at the 80 feet horizontal, capacity is 981 lbs.
The PM at the 80 feet horizontal, capacity is 1320 lbs
Palfinger won here.
PM is actually 2nd here.
Effer 3rd here.
-----------------
Alright, actaul dead weights of the cranes.
Effer, I believe it is 13,910 lbs.
Palfinger, only shows the base 44ton crane's weight, 9030 lbs.(so I don't know what it is with the fly jib, I'd like to know)
PM, I can't find any info on the actual dead weight (maybe they don't want you to know
------------
yeah, I think you should get a PM knuckleboom Classic. You've been looking at them hard. It would fit you well. Or get some generic made in China knucklboom, that would fit you even better.
classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
Re: PM Or Effer Or Palfinger
[ QUOTE ]
Boy, you like to pull things out of your rear.
Or were you somehow misguided by some bad literature or person?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think maybe some bad literature.
I see in some of the brochures they mention a fly jib, but very few give a chart for it, I'm looking at the main palfinger website, do you have a better one for charts?
I'm looking at the brochure for the Palfinger 42502 with an almost identical load moment of the PM and it says Max. Hydraulic Outreach 55'1", now granted it can pick a lot out there thats not alot of reach and it does not a give a chart for a fly jib nor does it mention one for that model.
Thats another thing I'm scratching my head about, how in the world with such a low dead weight and a small outrigger spread does it pick so much out there?
AND I WILL SAY IT ONCE MORE I HAVEN'T RULED ANYTHING OUT YET.
BTW the dead weight on the PM 48025+J904 is 13010 LBS, which doesn't bother me abit.
[ QUOTE ]
Boy, you like to pull things out of your rear.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think maybe some bad literature.
I see in some of the brochures they mention a fly jib, but very few give a chart for it, I'm looking at the main palfinger website, do you have a better one for charts?
I'm looking at the brochure for the Palfinger 42502 with an almost identical load moment of the PM and it says Max. Hydraulic Outreach 55'1", now granted it can pick a lot out there thats not alot of reach and it does not a give a chart for a fly jib nor does it mention one for that model.
Thats another thing I'm scratching my head about, how in the world with such a low dead weight and a small outrigger spread does it pick so much out there?
AND I WILL SAY IT ONCE MORE I HAVEN'T RULED ANYTHING OUT YET.
BTW the dead weight on the PM 48025+J904 is 13010 LBS, which doesn't bother me abit.
classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
Re: PM, Effer or Palfinger
[ QUOTE ]
James, where are you going to fit that K-boom?
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't worry Jamin, thats only half of our storage building.
The building itself is 62' x 98'
[ QUOTE ]
James, where are you going to fit that K-boom?
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't worry Jamin, thats only half of our storage building.
The building itself is 62' x 98'
Re: PM, Effer or Palfinger
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
James, where are you going to fit that K-boom?
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't worry Jamin, thats only half of our storage building.
The building itself is 62' x 98'
[/ QUOTE ]
I really like how lit up that building was. Nice design.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
James, where are you going to fit that K-boom?
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't worry Jamin, thats only half of our storage building.
The building itself is 62' x 98'
[/ QUOTE ]
I really like how lit up that building was. Nice design.
Re: PM Or Effer Or Palfinger
[ QUOTE ]
way to keep it together after me being an azz.
click on the North America Palfinger link in my long post on the first page.
then keep changing the model and keep clicking on the brochure download on the various models.
[/ QUOTE ]
the first two numbers in the palfinger model number are the ton rating. as it looks like you already know.
[ QUOTE ]
way to keep it together after me being an azz.
click on the North America Palfinger link in my long post on the first page.
then keep changing the model and keep clicking on the brochure download on the various models.
[/ QUOTE ]
the first two numbers in the palfinger model number are the ton rating. as it looks like you already know.
classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
Re: PM Or Effer Or Palfinger
Heres the specs I've come up with so far, I don't see any reason to compare apples to oranges so I chose 3 similar models with similar boom lengths and capacities:
Least number of points WINS
PM 48025+J905
Effer 470 5s+JB 4s
Palfinger PK44002D PJ125E
First Max. Lifting moment:
1. Palfinger: 307380 ft.lbs
2. PM: 305960 ft.lbs
3. Effer: 304830 ft.lbs
Full Ext. of Jib:
1. Palfinger: 92'
2. PM: 79'7"
3. Effer: 77'8"
Max lift @ Full Ext. of Jib:
1. Effer: 1940 lbs.
2. PM: 1610 lbs.
3. Palfinger: 882 lbs.(1190 @ 76')
Full Ext. of Main Boom:
1. Effer: 47'9"
2. PM: 47'7"
3. Palfinger: 46'
Max Lift @ Full Ext. of Main Boom:
1. Effer: 5650 lbs.
2. Palfinger: 5510 lbs.
3. PM: 5290 lbs.
Max Outrigger Spread:
1. Palfinger: 24'3"
2. PM: 25'7"
3. Effer: 25'8"
Dead Weight:
1. Palfinger: 12030 lbs.(9030 lbs. Plus estimated weight of 3000 lbs. for the jib)
2. PM: 13010 lbs.
3. Effer: 13270 lbs.
Slewing Torque:
1. PM: 39830 ft.lbs.
2. Palfinger: 32510 ft.lbs.
3. Effer: Not Listed
Totals:
1st place = Palfinger: 14
2nd place = PM: 16
3rd place = Effer: 18
There you go Palfinger wins as far as specs go, but there is more to it then that, I'll figure out soon when I'm talking to the dealers what the price is like, dealer support and stuff like that.
P.S. I already know the PM 48025 +J904 price range for just the boom.
Heres the specs I've come up with so far, I don't see any reason to compare apples to oranges so I chose 3 similar models with similar boom lengths and capacities:
Least number of points WINS
PM 48025+J905
Effer 470 5s+JB 4s
Palfinger PK44002D PJ125E
First Max. Lifting moment:
1. Palfinger: 307380 ft.lbs
2. PM: 305960 ft.lbs
3. Effer: 304830 ft.lbs
Full Ext. of Jib:
1. Palfinger: 92'
2. PM: 79'7"
3. Effer: 77'8"
Max lift @ Full Ext. of Jib:
1. Effer: 1940 lbs.
2. PM: 1610 lbs.
3. Palfinger: 882 lbs.(1190 @ 76')
Full Ext. of Main Boom:
1. Effer: 47'9"
2. PM: 47'7"
3. Palfinger: 46'
Max Lift @ Full Ext. of Main Boom:
1. Effer: 5650 lbs.
2. Palfinger: 5510 lbs.
3. PM: 5290 lbs.
Max Outrigger Spread:
1. Palfinger: 24'3"
2. PM: 25'7"
3. Effer: 25'8"
Dead Weight:
1. Palfinger: 12030 lbs.(9030 lbs. Plus estimated weight of 3000 lbs. for the jib)
2. PM: 13010 lbs.
3. Effer: 13270 lbs.
Slewing Torque:
1. PM: 39830 ft.lbs.
2. Palfinger: 32510 ft.lbs.
3. Effer: Not Listed
Totals:
1st place = Palfinger: 14
2nd place = PM: 16
3rd place = Effer: 18
There you go Palfinger wins as far as specs go, but there is more to it then that, I'll figure out soon when I'm talking to the dealers what the price is like, dealer support and stuff like that.
P.S. I already know the PM 48025 +J904 price range for just the boom.
- Location
- Canada
Re: PM Or Effer Or Palfinger
http://www.cranenetwork.com/search/type_results.asp?craneMakeID=63&craneTypeID=22
http://www.cranenetwork.com/search/type_results.asp?craneMakeID=63&craneTypeID=22
classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
Re: PM Or Effer Or Palfinger
Yeah thats a model smaller than Mike Poor's, but I was hoping to spend a little less money then that.
Yeah thats a model smaller than Mike Poor's, but I was hoping to spend a little less money then that.
- Location
- Canada
Re: PM Or Effer Or Palfinger
Sorry, I should have mentioned "Sit Down" when you read the price tag!!!
I had a sit-down with the Fassi guy yesterday, they make a Big one too!!!
Sorry, I should have mentioned "Sit Down" when you read the price tag!!!
I had a sit-down with the Fassi guy yesterday, they make a Big one too!!!
classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
Re: PM Or Effer Or Palfinger
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I should have mentioned "Sit Down" when you read the price tag!!!
I had a sit-down with the Fassi guy yesterday, they make a Big one too!!!
[/ QUOTE ] No kidding, the price is a little steep for a Used machine.
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I should have mentioned "Sit Down" when you read the price tag!!!
I had a sit-down with the Fassi guy yesterday, they make a Big one too!!!
[/ QUOTE ] No kidding, the price is a little steep for a Used machine.
SJ_Treeguy
New member
- Location
- Deep Southern NJ
Re: PM Or Effer Or Palfinger
Hey X,maybe you should not be burning the midnight oil so much your figures are alittle off,to start with you need to look at the foot pounds of lift if you want an apples to apples comparison. Effer 301,210 ft.lbs Palfinger 307,380 ft.lbs 6,000 lbs differance Palfinger would lift more.The fact that Palfinger goes to 87'11"(1455lbs of lift) than two manual pull out jibs to reach 101' means less wieght at the tip which will give more lift.Sooo if you take the Effer at 88ft(1450lbs of lift) add two manual pull out jibs to reach 101' looks like Effer lifts very close to the Palfinger but uses less ft.lbs. If we can find the wieght of the fly jib and add it to the base wieght of the crane you may find they both are close to the same dead wieght.
Hey X,maybe you should not be burning the midnight oil so much your figures are alittle off,to start with you need to look at the foot pounds of lift if you want an apples to apples comparison. Effer 301,210 ft.lbs Palfinger 307,380 ft.lbs 6,000 lbs differance Palfinger would lift more.The fact that Palfinger goes to 87'11"(1455lbs of lift) than two manual pull out jibs to reach 101' means less wieght at the tip which will give more lift.Sooo if you take the Effer at 88ft(1450lbs of lift) add two manual pull out jibs to reach 101' looks like Effer lifts very close to the Palfinger but uses less ft.lbs. If we can find the wieght of the fly jib and add it to the base wieght of the crane you may find they both are close to the same dead wieght.
- Location
- Canada
allmark
Participating member
Re: PM Or Effer Or Palfinger
[ QUOTE ]
Heres the specs I've come up with so far, I don't see any reason to compare apples to oranges so I chose 3 similar models with similar boom lengths and capacities:
Least number of points WINS
PM 48025+J905
Effer 470 5s+JB 4s
Palfinger PK44002D PJ125E
First Max. Lifting moment:
1. Palfinger: 307380 ft.lbs
2. PM: 305960 ft.lbs
3. Effer: 304830 ft.lbs
Full Ext. of Jib:
1. Palfinger: 92'
2. PM: 79'7"
3. Effer: 77'8"
Max lift @ Full Ext. of Jib:
1. Effer: 1940 lbs.
2. PM: 1610 lbs.
3. Palfinger: 882 lbs.(1190 @ 76')
Full Ext. of Main Boom:
1. Effer: 47'9"
2. PM: 47'7"
3. Palfinger: 46'
Max Lift @ Full Ext. of Main Boom:
1. Effer: 5650 lbs.
2. Palfinger: 5510 lbs.
3. PM: 5290 lbs.
Max Outrigger Spread:
1. Palfinger: 24'3"
2. PM: 25'7"
3. Effer: 25'8"
Dead Weight:
1. Palfinger: 9030 lbs.(Plus estimated weight of 3000 lbs. for the jib)
2. PM: 13010 lbs.
3. Effer: 13270 lbs.
Slewing Torque:
1. PM: 39830 ft.lbs.
2. Palfinger: 32510 ft.lbs.
3. Effer: Not Listed
Totals:
1st place = Palfinger: 14
2nd place = PM: 16
3rd place = Effer: 18
There you go Palfinger wins as far as specs go, but there is more to it then that, I'll figure out soon when I'm talking to the dealers what the price is like, dealer support and stuff like that.
P.S. I already know the PM 48025 +J904 price range for just the boom.
[/ QUOTE ]
Those arent apples to apples
Pal 44002 is a 42.5 MT lifts 463# at 97'9"
Effer 470 is a 42.5 MT lifts 1010# at 96'4"
Pal 85002 is a 80MT lifts 705# at 113'
Effer 850 is a 73MT lifts 1395# at 112'1"
Effer 750 68.2MT lifts 1165# at 112'1"
My 585 will pick 620# at 113'5"with 2 manual extensions
[ QUOTE ]
Heres the specs I've come up with so far, I don't see any reason to compare apples to oranges so I chose 3 similar models with similar boom lengths and capacities:
Least number of points WINS
PM 48025+J905
Effer 470 5s+JB 4s
Palfinger PK44002D PJ125E
First Max. Lifting moment:
1. Palfinger: 307380 ft.lbs
2. PM: 305960 ft.lbs
3. Effer: 304830 ft.lbs
Full Ext. of Jib:
1. Palfinger: 92'
2. PM: 79'7"
3. Effer: 77'8"
Max lift @ Full Ext. of Jib:
1. Effer: 1940 lbs.
2. PM: 1610 lbs.
3. Palfinger: 882 lbs.(1190 @ 76')
Full Ext. of Main Boom:
1. Effer: 47'9"
2. PM: 47'7"
3. Palfinger: 46'
Max Lift @ Full Ext. of Main Boom:
1. Effer: 5650 lbs.
2. Palfinger: 5510 lbs.
3. PM: 5290 lbs.
Max Outrigger Spread:
1. Palfinger: 24'3"
2. PM: 25'7"
3. Effer: 25'8"
Dead Weight:
1. Palfinger: 9030 lbs.(Plus estimated weight of 3000 lbs. for the jib)
2. PM: 13010 lbs.
3. Effer: 13270 lbs.
Slewing Torque:
1. PM: 39830 ft.lbs.
2. Palfinger: 32510 ft.lbs.
3. Effer: Not Listed
Totals:
1st place = Palfinger: 14
2nd place = PM: 16
3rd place = Effer: 18
There you go Palfinger wins as far as specs go, but there is more to it then that, I'll figure out soon when I'm talking to the dealers what the price is like, dealer support and stuff like that.
P.S. I already know the PM 48025 +J904 price range for just the boom.
[/ QUOTE ]
Those arent apples to apples
Pal 44002 is a 42.5 MT lifts 463# at 97'9"
Effer 470 is a 42.5 MT lifts 1010# at 96'4"
Pal 85002 is a 80MT lifts 705# at 113'
Effer 850 is a 73MT lifts 1395# at 112'1"
Effer 750 68.2MT lifts 1165# at 112'1"
My 585 will pick 620# at 113'5"with 2 manual extensions
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