Petzl Ascender Jam

BigJon

BigJon

Location
Pa
Today I was footlocking up a single line with a blue handled Petzl ascender. I was about 30 feet up when my ascender became jammed open with leaves and didn't catch. I was lucky and had a good bite on the rope with my feet. I was able to hold on and flip up on a branch and free the jammed cam. I got lucky today but it makes you think. These things weren't designed to be used in the situations we put them in.

My sling connected to my hand ascender is set up so I can attach another micro ascender for back up but I never really use it. I had set it up for future competitions after having a bad day using a prussic cord at a masters challenge.

I think now I might start backing it up when I am ascending through heavy cover.
 
Big Jon,

Wow! You and your family are very lucky. that is a good ending to a bad story. Thanks for the testimony.

Shameless self promotion warning
smile.gif


Did you read the article I wrote for TCI magazine on SRT climbing? You're the fourth person I know personally, well, we're
cyber friends at a minimum, who has had ascenders fail in the trees. There are others out there too.

When I first started to tweak SRT I decided that a backup was mandatory. Take a look at the upper right picture in this gallery: http://www.missouri.edu/~quinnl/trees/training/tomgallery.html That was the system that I used last winter. Now I have a
Rocker for the lower ascender, http://www.yatesgear.com/climbing/hardware/index.htm#11 The Rocker is a multi-use tool
too.

There are several of ways to back up a handled ascender on a sling.

*Tie a sliding friction hitch, Klemheist is my fav, above the ascender and clip the end into the biner on your saddle
*Use a small ascender like a Micro-cender, Gibbs, Rocker, etc. and attach it to the rope and then clip into your biner.
*Set up a chest ascender
*Tie an autoblock knot to your front dee's

If you ascend on the right size rope you could use a Ropeman for the lower ascender. This is one mountaineering tool that is
very particular about rope size. If the Ropeman is used with arbo rope the cam will not close far enough which could lead to
slipping.

The protocol that I teach with ascending is that the ascending tools NEVER touch anything. There are times when the ascent
rope is touching a limb. This can be a problem. My solution is to get my legs up and ready to move, then "jump" the ascender
when the rope is unweighted. Kind of like initiating a ski turn.

Tom
 
I`ve always backed up my ascender with a hitch.
I like the idea of having two chances.
Two is one, one is none, Right?

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin ]
 
Whats up John. Good to hear it turned out OK.
It's good to have a piece of humble pie every now and then.
Do you put a 'biner through the holes to lock in rope? To be honest thats all i do, no real backup incase of total failure of petzl. But, I make sure i dont run it through leaves.
wink.gif
I have used the petzl for 8yrs. now. I have never had a prob. with any of my petzl's. I pay real close attention to detail, if it doesnt seem right I just have to change it. Sometimes I get a little to picky, but who cares, I'm the one who's goin to be responsible. Just make sure you lock your rope in with that 'biner. Makes a nice mental picture too.
See you Sat. at Cadwalder, if your still goin.
Later
 
Thilo,

Just a small semantic issue. If the rope is hung over a limb and you ascend you're actually climbing on a doubled rope not a double rope. IN rock climbing, especially in Europe, they actually climb on two seperate ropes. What most arbos use is a doubled rope system, DdR. If one leg or one ascender fails, the whole system fails. Using a sliding friction hitch instead of a mechanical ascneder will still expose you to the same risks. Add a back up.

If anyone doesn't recieve TCI and you want a copy of the SRT article that I wrote, email me off line, I'll send it out as an attachement.

Tom
canopytree@earthlink.net
 
Tom, I just tore this months copy of TCI. I've been so busy I haven't really looked through it yet. One thing that caught my eye is that we should use a rope 3 times the length of the limb we are crotched over. I have a two hundred foot line now and honestly once in awhile I have to tie and exstension to that just to tie it off at the bottom.

I know myself I like to be pretty close to where I am going to tie into and that is usually around 90 feet.

I like to tie off the end of my rope that is not spliced and have spliced end already tied with my friction hitch. I then clip that to saddle so I have it right there when I get to the top or if I should want to back out early.

When you talk about anchoring in you never mentioned just running a bowlin up and the physics involved in how much the weight is doubled when tied off at the ground. I understand this is a good system with the belay device. I know myself I would rather have the ascent line tied off at the top when possible so as not to apply doulbe my weight to the limb and also I don't have to rely on anyone to untie my rope.
 
Big Jon,

You make some good points. As I've worked out my SRT system I went through all of those setups. Each of them left a little to be desired.

Before I got my 200' 7/16" static I had two shorter lines that I tied together. The knot would always be on the same side of the crotch as the climber. That way, if the climber needed to be lowered out the know wouldn't have to go through a crotch and risk jamming. This is the same way that I would solve the issue of a tie in above 65' or one third the length of the access line.

You're right, by draping the access line over a limb the load is doubled. That is the one short coming of my system. The way that I look at this is the same as a rigging situation. What's your Safety Factor? If you set your rope by choking a running bowline so that it halves the load, then you're working with about a 2:1 SF. I don't like to be that close to the edge in any rigging situation. When I choose an access limb I take into account the double loading. Another factor to remember is the bounce loading while footlocking. Remember what happens to the loads when we bomb out chunks doing removals, the loads go way up.

Rarely do I use my climbing line as an access line. Using static line for long ascents is much easier. The stretch of the line is reduced but the load on the access limb is increased. Those laws of physics are hard to escape, energy goes somewhere. When I get to my tie in, the access line is left in place. A rope is ready for hauling gear, a second climber or a rescue. All of those factors are pluses that off set the few minuses of this system.

That's a great idea to tail your spliced end up with you when you ascend. The few extra calories expended tailing the rope are less than those expended hauling the end up later. thanks for the tip. As an alternative to my system, you could have your climbing system tied and attached to your saddle. That way, in case of an emergency, you have the possibility of just clipping the end of your line over a limb, detaching your ascender and descending off the tail. Good plan.

SRT isn't for everyone. It does require more gear [to me, that's a plus
smile.gif
] and more knowledge. This is just another tool in the kit.

Back up ascenders though.

Tom
 
Hey Sawdust , good to see you in here. And a very valid point as well.People keep saying that the ascenders are failing. They arn't failing, we are making them fail by not using them properly. I'm sure we all know they arn't made to work with leaves, sticks, needles and whatever else may get jammed in the cam.I myself have had that happen as well, while climbing a 300' redwood on a srt sytem.Luckily , I had two back ups. One was my foot ascender and the other was my micro ascender between the upper and lower.It really wasnt a big deal,it was just a funny feeling when I went to pull up and the ascender didnt grab. but it does make you think.MOst of our equiptment fails because of us not paying attention to how it is suppose to be used ,loaded or inspected.
I have never had a piece of Climbing hardware fail, just because it wanted to fail. It has always been human error. That has been my experience in the ten years I've climbed.
THanks
Greg
 
Here is one more Tom!
I actally had the same thing about a year ago with a double Petzl Ascender on a double line while footlocking.Same there,I had a good bite with the feet, lucky me.
I am not using Ascenders anymore,( tryed them in the Redwoods again and are not happy with them anyway) I am back to prussikcords with a Klemmheist. Works really well but be carefull with this knot. If its not proper done it failures very easy.
Thilo
 
Actually spoke to a climber at the weekend on this very subject, we know of three climbers who over the past month have had ascenders "fail" on them, primraily due to tree debris blocking/clogging or acting upon the cams, one of them now backs his up with a friction hitch and the other is back to a double footlock strop.
 
I found backing up ascenders is always necessary, whether in trees, caves or rock walls. Normally two ascenders are used in SRT and if both are attached to the centre 'D's, this is back up. If footlocking or using a foot jammer, the top ascender needs backing up - unless you're happy with a heel hang as a backup!

I found tying a klemheist just above the ascender worked well. But rather than tying this into the harness I tie it into the bottom of the asceder. Just make sure you grab the prusik as well as the ascender - otherwise the hand gets trapped when the ascender slips and the friction hitch catches the fall. Ouch!

I had to train some guys protecting Raptor nests once. They had to be up the tree and away in 30 mins so the eggs didn't get cold. Some of the trees had very weak branches. We worked a system where SRT was used and backed up with a dynamic line to a chest harnes and energy absorber. This would be thread through runners around the trunk whilst ascending, and belayed on the ground. If the top anchor failed, The groundman could lower the climber to the ground on either or both the static line and dynamic line.

Could you send me a copy of your article Tom - sounds great.
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From what I gather from reading On Rope it looks like a gibbs ascender added and placed on the floating D-ring would provide a great back up. If a small bungie cord were attached from the bottome of the top ascender to the top of the gibbs the gibbs would always be fully advanced and if the top ascender failed to grab....the gibbs would be right there....with almost no slack at all.

Dan
Atlanta
 
HI Tree co.

Mr.Beranek has been doing what your talking about for a back up for, god knows how long.I think he invented the SRT system using three Gibbs ascenders inline. Feet, middle and top.Good system , although , maybe not as efieciant as some of todays Srt systems, it still got you in the tree and safely.
I use a Mini Traxion or a micro ascender for my back up.Directly attached to my delta link or Petzel swivel.The on play is the size of your carabiner. Not enough to worry about and there is no bungi cord to get in your way.
Going to be doing some Srt this Mon and tues with Mr. Beranek and Tree Preacher ( jesse Bawcum) A large Redwood around 250' 14'dia. A tree Jerry and I started on before , but got rained out. Weather looks good this time though.Anybody who can make it to Cali by Mon. is welcome to join us...we will be at Confusion Hill Hwy 101...
 
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