Overuse Injuries

[Brando CalPankian]

Getting old is fun isn't it. Especially when cumulative injuries start popping up.

I noticed this week that my left knee is feeling really strained, especially when walking through brush on a felling operation. Walking and lifting are fine, but it's when I'm getting on and off equipment, going in and out of the truck, driving the chip truck (manual) etc.

My right shoulder has been giving me issues since we got the lift. All of the pulling the saw out of the scabbard with my right hand, pull starting saws, etc.

It got me thinking more about what I can do to help those coming up under me stay healthier. I'm not in picturesque health, having some gnarly injuries over the years, but I muddled through (as tree folks do) and have overcame a lot.

What do y'all's daily routines look like when it comes to keeping musculoskeletal disorders at bay? Static stretching doesn't seem to cut it. Yoga helps, but it can be difficult to get employees on board. I'm just starting to be able to lift weights lightly again and do actual cardio outside of work thanks to some recent spine operations. I'm hoping to capitalize on that momentum.

Somatics was mentioned once recently, as we're a few other things.

Its becoming more evident that this is something we need to implement daily into our tailgate meetings, and possibly in our debrief at the end of the day.

Thank you!

 

[Serf Life]

Getting old is fun isn't it. Especially when cumulative injuries start popping up.

I noticed this week that my left knee is feeling really strained, especially when walking through brush on a felling operation. Walking and lifting are fine, but it's when I'm getting on and off equipment, going in and out of the truck, driving the chip truck (manual) etc.

My right shoulder has been giving me issues since we got the lift. All of the pulling the saw out of the scabbard with my right hand, pull starting saws, etc.

It got me thinking more about what I can do to help those coming up under me stay healthier. I'm not in picturesque health, having some gnarly injuries over the years, but I muddled through (as tree folks do) and have overcame a lot.

What do y'all's daily routines look like when it comes to keeping musculoskeletal disorders at bay? Static stretching doesn't seem to cut it. Yoga helps, but it can be difficult to get employees on board. I'm just starting to be able to lift weights lightly again and do actual cardio outside of work thanks to some recent spine operations. I'm hoping to capitalize on that momentum.

Somatics was mentioned once recently, as we're a few other things.

Its becoming more evident that this is something we need to implement daily into our tailgate meetings, and possibly in our debrief at the end of the day.

Thank you!

Let's go back in time and you be one of my first bosses! Fucking criminal how so many of us were used as brush dragging warm bodies with no talk/thought as to long-term health. I'm home with family today post kiddo tonsillectomy, and my shoulders are aching from just sitting more than normal. Plane rides or long car rides as a passenger are increasingly painful even with regular strengthening and PT work.
Tons in the archives on this and many Universities have industry outreach for this (UMaine logging/farming stretches/poses posters comes to mind). Having an actual phys/sports/occupational therapist do a monthly visit would be both cheap and impactful on top of in-house routines. Bravo bud.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

My right shoulder has been giving me issues since we got the lift. All of the pulling the saw out of the scabbard with my right hand, pull starting saws, etc.

Well, an easy fix there is using an electric saw. Starting even a 261 makes my lower back a little annoyed now.

As far as the knee.. just spitballing some ideas… if you’re still climbing… double check your spikes are adjusted to your shin length. That’s done me in before with knee pain. I also don’t use a knee ascender and the asymmetrical ascent caught up to me, but that’s more in lower back. I still don’t use a knee ascender but I step my right foot on top of my left foot with the foot ascender to keep good posture and balance- that makes a huge difference. Everyone’s different so really analyzing your ascent and climbing style and being open to adjustments.

At this point I’m in a constant state of low pain, and so I get immediate feedback from an activity letting me know it’s bad posture, too heavy, etc.

Pilates helps. Strengthen your core and your glutes.

 

[Merle Nelson]

The practice of Somatics could be boiled down to a muscular reset. Think of what you might feel like in your body if your muscles were reset to the feel of 20 year old you.

I do a 15 minute Somatic routine every morning that allows me to work as hard as I want for 10 to 14 hour days and be fine. If I don't do that in a few days of work my muscles will tighten up enough (not fully releasing) that I can be crawling on the ground in pain and unable to work in just a few days.

There is a learning process to Somatics and at first I think I spent up to 45 minutes or an hour a day learning it for some weeks. This however was not a problem for me as the only way I could approach getting these results was by doing Egoscue Exercises for up to 2 hours per day - not long term sustainable.

Everyone now has proximity access to fantastic Somatics training at (essential somatics.com). Martha Peterson has a fair amount of free content on YouTube and her site - certainly enough to get started, know it's the real deal and often enough to work through a critical moment of down time.

 

[Willber]

I'm very lucky to not have any pains, except in the souls of the feet, hence I must wear insoles.
I seem to have lack of natural cushioning, in the soles of the feet.

One thing I've looked into is the benefits of a more alkaline body. Lime juice seems more affective in alkalizing the blood than lemon juice. I have recently started taking citric acid capsules, (2 - 1,000mg mid day), to reduce acid erosion of the molars.
I understand that if the blood is too acidic, the body cannot, as effectively, metabolize key/essential elements/minerals/amino acids, to rebuild various tissues.
Also, if one is consuming animal tissue, the liver and kidneys secrete acidic waste into the blood stream, when meat is metabolized.
Taking something that alkalizes the blood, seems to less muscle recovering time. Maybe because the lactic acid is neutralized sooner, from muscle trauma.

 

[southsoundtree]

Well, an easy fix there is using an electric saw. Starting even a 261 makes my lower back a little annoyed now.

As far as the knee.. just spitballing some ideas… if you’re still climbing… double check your spikes are adjusted to your shin length. That’s done me in before with knee pain. I also don’t use a knee ascender and the asymmetrical ascent caught up to me, but that’s more in lower back. I still don’t use a knee ascender but I step my right foot on top of my left foot with the foot ascender to keep good posture and balance- that makes a huge difference. Everyone’s different so really analyzing your ascent and climbing style and being open to adjustments.

At this point I’m in a constant state of low pain, and so I get immediate feedback from an activity letting me know it’s bad posture, too heavy, etc.

Pilates helps. Strengthen your core and your glutes.

Is there a good reason?
Rope walking is soooo much easier than sit- stand or holding your weight on your hands.

 

[Mick Dempsey!]

My knees have been giving me issues, so I worked out that dragging heavy loads of brash to the chipper is the cause.

So I don’t do that anymore.

I never found any aspect of climbing gave any issues.
It’s always been ground work that gives me problems.

 

[Brando CalPankian]

Let's go back in time and you be one of my first bosses! Fucking criminal how so many of us were used as brush dragging warm bodies with no talk/thought as to long-term health. I'm home with family today post kiddo tonsillectomy, and my shoulders are aching from just sitting more than normal. Plane rides or long car rides as a passenger are increasingly painful even with regular strengthening and PT work.
Tons in the archives on this and many Universities have industry outreach for this (UMaine logging/farming stretches/poses posters comes to mind). Having an actual phys/sports/occupational therapist do a monthly visit would be both cheap and impactful on top of in-house routines. Bravo bud.

I didn't know I could hire an therapist to come in and teach. Never even thought of that. That might be the ticket so I'm not talking too much, lol.

Sitting hurts, totally relate. I've got a long plane ride coming up and I'm dreading it.

I'll check out U of M archives and see if they have forestry related ones.

 

[Brando CalPankian]

The practice of Somatics could be boiled down to a muscular reset. Think of what you might feel like in your body if your muscles were reset to the feel of 20 year old you.

I do a 15 minute Somatic routine every morning that allows me to work as hard as I want for 10 to 14 hour days and be fine. If I don't do that in a few days of work my muscles will tighten up enough (not fully releasing) that I can be crawling on the ground in pain and unable to work in just a few days.

There is a learning process to Somatics and at first I think I spent up to 45 minutes or an hour a day learning it for some weeks. This however was not a problem for me as the only way I could approach getting these results was by doing Egoscue Exercises for up to 2 hours per day - not long term sustainable.

Everyone now has proximity access to fantastic Somatics training at (essential somatics.com). Martha Peterson has a fair amount of free content on YouTube and her site - certainly enough to get started, know it's the real deal and often enough to work through a critical moment of down time.

Cloey should have a light day on PHC work today. When I get home we're all going to dive into this together. I looked it up last time you'd mentioned it but wound up working too much, compounding issues. Thank you for this (again).

 

[Brando CalPankian]

I'm very lucky to not have any pains, except in the souls of the feet, hence I must wear insoles.
I seem to have lack of natural cushioning, in the soles of the feet.

One thing I've looked into is the benefits of a more alkaline body. Lime juice seems more affective in alkalizing the blood than lemon juice. I have recently started taking citric acid capsules, (2 - 1,000mg mid day), to reduce acid erosion of the molars.
I understand that if the blood is too acidic, the body cannot, as effectively, metabolize key/essential elements/minerals/amino acids, to rebuild various tissues.
Also, if one is consuming animal tissue, the liver and kidneys secrete acidic waste into the blood stream, when meat is metabolized.
Taking something that alkalizes the blood, seems to less muscle recovering time. Maybe because the lactic acid is neutralized sooner, from muscle trauma.

I CRAVE fresh lemon these days. I drink lemonade a ton. I'd wondered if there was a correlation there. I eat a lot of meat, really high protein diet, so this would make sense. I'd started doing lemon/lime ade so maybe my body is saying something. I know acidic bodies increase inflammation too, so maybe that's adding fuel to the fire.

 

[Brando CalPankian]

Is there a good reason?
Rope walking is soooo much easier than sit- stand or holding your weight on your hands.

I agree, frog walking takes A LOT more energy, for me at least. I'm nearly exclusively SRS with rope walking. Go so far as to 3:1 myself back on limb walks most days

 

[Brando CalPankian]

My knees have been giving me issues, so I worked out that dragging heavy loads of brash to the chipper is the cause.

So I don’t do that anymore.

I never found any aspect of climbing gave any issues.
It’s always been ground work that gives me problems.

Ditto. Ground pounding kills me. My injuries have been related to ground work. Climbing feels amazing tbh.

 

[Brando CalPankian]

Well, an easy fix there is using an electric saw. Starting even a 261 makes my lower back a little annoyed now.

As far as the knee.. just spitballing some ideas… if you’re still climbing… double check your spikes are adjusted to your shin length. That’s done me in before with knee pain. I also don’t use a knee ascender and the asymmetrical ascent caught up to me, but that’s more in lower back. I still don’t use a knee ascender but I step my right foot on top of my left foot with the foot ascender to keep good posture and balance- that makes a huge difference. Everyone’s different so really analyzing your ascent and climbing style and being open to adjustments.

At this point I’m in a constant state of low pain, and so I get immediate feedback from an activity letting me know it’s bad posture, too heavy, etc.

Pilates helps. Strengthen your core and your glutes.

I've been debating a battery saw. Idk how they'd work in -20. I know my new spikes are just too sharp still. I've tried dulling them gently, might need to be more aggressive. Long legs so my spikes are normally extended out fully.

Side note, I wonder if my lineman boots have anything to do with it. I've been wearing them less in favor of bogs when I'm using the bucket. Maybe the lack of leg mobility that comes from 16" boots plays into it.

 

[Serf Life]

I'm very lucky to not have any pains, except in the souls of the feet, hence I must wear insoles.
I seem to have lack of natural cushioning, in the soles of the feet.

One thing I've looked into is the benefits of a more alkaline body. Lime juice seems more affective in alkalizing the blood than lemon juice. I have recently started taking citric acid capsules, (2 - 1,000mg mid day), to reduce acid erosion of the molars.
I understand that if the blood is too acidic, the body cannot, as effectively, metabolize key/essential elements/minerals/amino acids, to rebuild various tissues.
Also, if one is consuming animal tissue, the liver and kidneys secrete acidic waste into the blood stream, when meat is metabolized.
Taking something that alkalizes the blood, seems to less muscle recovering time. Maybe because the lactic acid is neutralized sooner, from muscle trauma.

Please provide sources before suggesting this to the masses. Also: regularly acid bathing your teeth to reduce acid degradation?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Electric saws to eliminate rope pulls

Keep the bottom of your hands below your eye brows. Stop stretching out for a higher cut

Keep your elbows tucked down next to your body. Not out like wings

Years ago we had a physical therapist do sessions at the Shade Tree Short Course. She was associated w UMD where she worked with several of the college sports teams. She talked about ergonomics and was a very popular speaker

I can’t recall her name at the moment. She was married to the late Kelly Fleissner who was the Duluth city forester A little detective aught to track her down

One more ergonomic tip

Get grippy gloves. It takes less gripping muscle from fingers to shoulders

 

[Simpleiowaguy]

You're probably gonna think I'm stupid but the best things that I think have personally kept me moving well are:
*A good chiropractor - Someone that can get extended relief for you, not having to go in three times a week to some bullshit chain clinic.
*Good boots - I wear Hoffman Powerlines when on spikes, danner vicious in the bucket or when spikeless, and stein defender max when ground pound or doing ground work with saw.
*Side sleeping - thought this was bullshit when my chiro recommended it but with a good firm pillow and a memory foam leg pillow i get amazing sleep and it helps keep the spine alignment. Took a little while to get use to.
*Green tea - has naturally occurring polyphenols that help with block joint pain and has anti inflammatory properties.

Besides that good ergos, posture, position all play a huge part day in and day out. I have everyone on my crew do every task. No one just goes in a tree, blows it on the ground then sits in the truck while groundies clean it up. My guys are good about trading off roping, running loader, chipping, and raking.

 

[evo]

I've been debating a battery saw. Idk how they'd work in -20. I know my new spikes are just too sharp still. I've tried dulling them gently, might need to be more aggressive. Long legs so my spikes are normally extended out fully.

Side note, I wonder if my lineman boots have anything to do with it. I've been wearing them less in favor of bogs when I'm using the bucket. Maybe the lack of leg mobility that comes from 16" boots plays into it.

Tape a hand warmer to the battery?

 

[evo]

Please provide sources before suggesting this to the masses. Also: regularly acid bathing your teeth to reduce acid degradation?

The chemistry doesn’t make sense, take acid to make the body more alkaline?

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Is there a good reason?
Rope walking is soooo much easier than sit- stand or holding your weight on your hands.

I tried knee ascenders at different times, with good folks who knew how to train, it just didn’t click for my body.

My injuries have been related to ground work. Climbing feels amazing tbh.

This is relatable. For me it’s the fucking mini skid ramps. I just literally can’t lift them anymore. Plus the brush dragging.

Climbing extends my spine and provides the most relief of any physical activity.

 

[Matias]

Glad to hear that you're getting enough protein, because that was gonna be my #1 suggestion. Also glad to hear that you are getting back to being able to lift. I think that strengthening key muscles, which will be different ones for different people, and getting enough protein, sleep, and relaxation, and strengthenong the muscles that give you trouble, which may actually be smaller ones that support the bigger ones where you may feel more pain, are the biggest things that have helped me. That and barefoot style minimalist footwear, because again, strengthening the smaller musclea that support the big ones is often overlooked, and there are tons of muscles in your feet, ankles, and lower legs, and everything relies on those to get from one place to another.

I do also feel like I get benefit from static stretching, but I generally do it as a seperate thing feom work, like working out, and do it to extend my total ROM, so that later I can lift through a broader ROM than before, increasing overall mobility.

Lastly, it may just be the other stuff, but I feel like things got even easier when I started taking creatine.