Oldschool vs Newschool, and avoiding brused egos.

I remember doing that split the line thing. It worked in some spots, kinda cool the way they held the body when swiveling laterally. But a second line (or tying with the tail) is second habit for me in spreading trees these days.

Shuffle board haha, up a 87' water oak yesterday, and a 95' willow oak today (dropped the tape in both, and ooooo they loved the panoramic pics). 5 hours on the clock at consultant rate$, and not a cut made on either.

Aerial assessment is one way to transition out of production climbing, when the joints start to wear out, attached.
 

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Jomoco, where can I find some of your vids?

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Google jomoco7 YouTube Cory.

I've got ancient stuff of both Magargal and myself on VHS that needs to be converted to a digital format, as well as other vids on my old computer in storage. But for now there are some 80 odd vids on YouTube, some junk, some not.

Jomoco
 
I'm still of the opinion that our industry is in its infancy and more backwards than not. Held hostage to cheap labor and greed.

Back in the 90's I was pretty gungho about the ISA and TCIA actually leading the charge into a brave new 21st century world of modern arboricultural advances that would lead to a safer more efficient industry that put the arborist exactly where he needs to be in each tree with a plethora of of tools at their disposal in their own controlled environment.

http://www.google.com/patents/US5558118

But it was not destined to be. We still suffer heat prostration in hot weather, risk frost bite in cold weather, breathe suffocating dust and debis that we choke on in given seasons and tree species worked on.

Anyone who thinks I'm stuck in an old school rut has no idea who I truly am, what I've advocated in the past, and how hard I tried to get the powers that be in this industry to snap out of their self induced collective comas.

Many people think I have an axe to grind with the ISA and others in positions of power today like the Asplundh brothers, Altec and the Morey family, and they're right, I do. All they care about is maintaining and consolidating their own power bases in my opinion. The rest of us are just consumers of their inferior junk food.

I know this industry well enough to see it for what it is, a good ole boys club contemptuous of outsiders trying to change their modes of operation whether in the tree or out of it behind a desk.

Leading the way into the 21st century? That phrase always made me laugh real hard. Even though with our abysmal safety record, it's not very funny at all in any sense other than sad irony.

Jomoco
 
I'm a bit more optimistic than Jomoco about the future of the profession...I don't think of it as an industry.

Speaking of what we do as a profession personifies rather than institutionalizes what we see and do. Waiting for the industry change is like expecting an aircraft carrier not to run you down when paddling a kayak...not likely that the carrier either sees you or can react to your safety/needs. Better to be prepared...stay out of shipping lanes...and if you do go there...be ready and aware of the dangers.

When I was at the Charlotte TCC I looked around at the techs/judges/climbers. One thing that I noticed was that there was only one hardhat...a plastic, round brim one at that. EVERYONE else had on a helmet with a chinstrap. There's no mandate...yet...to wear a chinstrap. This sort of change will start to trickle down and infiltrate...think of a good virus...into the rest of the profession. The industry is going to fight about it until there is a change in standards/Z133 or regulations/OSHA. This is great!

John Ball seems to interpret positive changes from his interpretations of the injury/death statistics too. Small improvements. This is pretty interesting since the ability to collect more data means there are more accidents/injuries in the data base. John tells me that this can be accounted for using good statistical analysis so that we have a clear picture.

I'd like to see if someone could crunch the numbers and analyze the ages of the TCC climbers over the years. Is there an upward swing in the median/mean age? This could mean that the skillsets are aging. That would be heartening. If our industry used to chew up and spit out climbers because of accidents/injuries at a younger age in the past we might see older and healthier climbers in the comps. There might be a data set to analyze. On the other hand it might just be another data set that is on the crest of the Baby Boom generation wave.
 
With all due respect Tom, the great progressive talented climbers with true fire in their bellies for this industry, are not representative of the actual practitioners in this industry in the field on a daily basis except for a tiny minority of truly progressive companies, in my opinion.

It's the professed leaders of this industry's jobs to institute change that actually benefits the hands on workers in the field in my opinion.

How long does it take for a super carrier to change course? A decade?
5 decades, a century?

Are compound hose assemblies beyond the 21st century's engineering prowess?

What you see as acceptable progress strikes me as stone age intractability now for a decade and counting.

Jomoco
 
Whatever...

Here's something to argue about too...

If its to be its up to me.

Take responsibility for making a [positive] change or stop blathering about how it is someone else's 'job' to make change. Study revolution.

Keep your alleged respect...I don't need it.

Whenever I find someone who is even more pessimistic about an issue than ME I feel absolutely, outrageously, extraordinarily HAPPY about the future. Thanks for being that person Jomoco.
 
"I know this industry well enough to see it for what it is, a good ole boys club contemptuous of outsiders trying to change their modes of operation whether in the tree or out of it behind a desk."

MmmmI don't know...after a couple decades of trying, I've found some prerequisites for participating in positive change:

Clear and compelling and defendable positions

Support from respected colleagues
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Consistent and varied methods of communication

MOST important is: looking for the positives in the people whose minds you want to win over, and STOP criticizing. When a chronic critic speaks up, habitual self-defense leads to partial if not full deafness.

iow, quitcherbitchin
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and try to get along! I know zilch about chipper safety, but have done enough tired and lonely rants of my own to know what they sound like.
 
I like to think I've contributed a teeny tiny bit to positive changes in this industry. Back in 92 cambium saving devices were almost nonexistent in the tree industry.

In another decade or so, who knows, maybe cabling experts will even be installing cables in perfect alignment to their anchoring hardware?

Modest achievements no doubt. But even self admitted trouble makers can achieve change in this industry if they're ornery and stubborn enough, despite themselves.

Here's to sharp axes, blades and chains meeting their intended targets!

Jomoco
 
it seems the bigger and more corporate the company is the more the service among other things suck . why is that ?
all you can really do is hold your values close and do what is right , but how does that change the big guys ? i get alot of work because alot of people like dealing with a small company kinda like the ma and pa stores . my own experiences with this is the same . they actually care to help you and do the right thing for you . it is not always about profit . always dig you post jomoco . you sound like a real down to earth guy . climb safe ...
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it seems the bigger and more corporate the company is the more the service among other things suck . why is that ?
all you can really do is hold your values close and do what is right , but how does that change the big guys ? ...

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Here here!

Sour grapes about big firms completely! They have invaded most areas of arboriculture with their brand of viewpoint. Much of the standard is what they lobbied it to be. Sound familiar? Creates a mess 9 times out of 10.

They do notice when you bite into their pie. They know you - even though it seems like they don't. Whether they pay attention to you, depends on how well your "right way" is supported. It does get back to them (If I may use that pronoun).

NOT saying it (the standards and knowledge we work by) is wrong, but I am saying that it is obvious where it comes from when read carefully. I think the support for portions of "it" could stand to be challenged.

As far as moving forward, the larger the one's ego, the more difficult forward progress will be for EVERYONE, including the NS peeps, OS peeps and the entire profession.

Any conversation leaves remnants in another's mind.
 
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...Sour grapes about big firms completely! They have invaded most areas of arboriculture with their brand of viewpoint. Much of the standard is what they lobbied it to be...
NOT saying it (the standards and knowledge we work by) is wrong, but I am saying that it is obvious where it comes from when read carefully. I think the support for portions of "it" could stand to be challenged.

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So how do you plan to do this? By checking this site http://www.tcia.org/standards/CurrentProjects.htm and making public comments when they are up for revision? It is supposed to be a participatory process; so participate!

And yes it's best to deflate one's ego first, or it may get deflated for you!
 
I agree Guy. It will be very embarrassing for all the CA's who pushed Imidacloprid injections on their clients to "save" their trees from EAB because their egos would not allow them to think logically about what's truly best for their clients rather than the corporate spin miesters at TCIA mag's advertising dept. Chu ching!

Corporations lie? OMG stop the presses!

Jomoco
 
I'm very new to the industry too, and I've experienced what you're talking about.

I think the short answer to your question is, "Keep your mouth shut", EXCEPT, of course, in situations of immediate personal danger. The longer answer for me is based on 2 ideas:

1) The hierarchy of the arboriculture work site must be respected and adhered to. My current expereince level and role as a groundie/entry-level climber puts me at the bottom of that hierarchy on every work site.

2) Knowing how much there is to learn and how much stuff has/is changed/ing in the industry, I looked for an employer that is big on, among other things, asking questions.

I have the information that I've learnt in school and I have the information I've read in books, and I carry this stuff into every job I'm on. When the crew leader/lead climber takes a moment to tell me something or explain something I listen, and then run what he is telling me (silently!) against the info I have. If it fits, that's good, strenghtens that piece of knowledge. If it doesn't fit, that's a flag, and I put that in the 'maybe' pile. Further experience and/or reading is needed.

What I don't want to do, however, is come off like the new-guy know-it-all and as you said Chris, piss these guys off. Besides souring the mood, this wrecks my ability to learn all I can from them because now they're on the defensive (pissed off) and wondering when I'm going to say something next about what they do.

I know that as my own expereince level increases and I'm given more responsibility at the work site, I will get the chance to make the important decisions about the pruning or the planting or the diagnosis.

For now though my job is to learn, and I think this is best done by listening, working hard, and earning the respect of all those senior to me in experience.
 
I think that's a great approach man. I think I could have spared myself a lot of headache had I handled things this way.
Nowadays when a new guy or girl comes in I dump small responsibilities on them like the usual stuff. Water and ice supplies, windshields and truck cleaning at the gas station, house keeping items ect. Very soon though I start giving more responsibility and decision making, empowering! I let them know, "when you ask me to do something, bring a tool from the truck or whatever, I'll do it how I want it done...quick like a bunny." "I'm also exemplifying how I want you to treat others when they come here. If you harass some greenie or mistreat them, it's a form of bullying and not only is it a TOTAL drag...it's all three strikes against you." Things are changing and I know I need to also. This stuff is good for me.
 
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...It will be very embarrassing for all the CA's....

[/ QUOTE ]Jeez jo you are off on a new rant e3very third post.


First, make sure your copies of the Parts most relevant to your practice and study are current. Follow the flowcharts first, to feel the process as the job evolves. Next read the text, marking sections that are important or unclear. You may find seeds for new services in there, and areas ripe for study. Look for ways to build from the core practices described. If they are in the A300, they are tested in the lab, or in the field, or more likely both! Try a new twist on the tried-and-true, to up your arboricultural game.

For clarification on unfamiliar sections, look again to the Definitions. See how the concepts fit together, forming an integrated structure. If they don’t fit, consult a dictionary or thesaurus to get a wider context, a better view of the meanings. Consult with a colleague, a chapter member, a mentor, a local expert, to see if they can help sort it out. Visit http://www.tcia.org/standards/a300.htm to see when that Part is being revised. Public comments are always welcome, but they are best understood when the relevant clause is quoted, and noted by number. Alternate wording--additions, deletions, and changes—should be literally specified.

Like using the A300 itself, when objectives are clearly established, and specifications are accurately written, the work will go well. Cite references, such as publications, images, and documented practice, that support your position. Unsupported rants on unprovable philosophy are difficult for outsiders to understand, much less incorporate. Keep comments simple and defendable. All comments to the full committee get a response. You can always contact a committee member in your organization.
 
Only someone with experience speaks from experience. Like they've seen co-workers injured and killed. They've also seen what they thought was a good idea or practice at the time create bad results down the road. That's info to listen to and remember but as you relay this to someone new you won't have the same commitment to the concept as something you've witnessed work or not personally.

I've never liked the terms old school / new school. It's an evolution that builds off of past experiences. You need to know history to predict the future. I get that on the ski hill. The snowboarders came along thinking they'd invented something new and the wanker two-plankers were getting in their way. How did those lifts, roads and lodges get there anyway. Now I'm telemarking as much as anything. It's the way skiing began. It makes the most sense. Comfortable, fun, challenging, practical, but chicks don't dig it. Time to check the ego enjoy the experience. Whatever is the best you can do is all you need.
 
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