Norway Maple decay

"If the cavity is to be filled, it must be drained and
if excessive moisture is present, cleaned out. If
necessary, a tight-fitting drain is installed upward
into the base of the cavity. Conduit is preferred. If
put in tight, wood fiber will expand around the
pipe to exclude oxygen. The chance of decay is
nil. Installing a drain relieves pressure, helps to dry
out the cavity and helps the healing processes.
Sometimes it pays to char the cavity surface with
a blow torch. Sometimes a disinfectant such as
Clorox or Lysol are applied. The cleaned cavity is
then coated with one application of orange shellac
to seal the surface from moisture. A wound dressing,
such as asphalt emulsion, should then be applied"

Do you also do the above as well? There are many text's out there that are available to the contrary. Tom mentioned Shigo. You can put rouge on a pig, and call it Sally, but it's still a pig.
 
It's been universally understood for a long time that using anything to fill in a cavity in a tree just causes more problems than it solves.

Using cement to fill in cavities is for teeth, not trees.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"If the cavity is to be filled, it must be drained and
if excessive moisture is present, cleaned out. If
necessary, a tight-fitting drain is installed upward
into the base of the cavity. Conduit is preferred. If
put in tight, wood fiber will expand around the
pipe to exclude oxygen. The chance of decay is
nil. Installing a drain relieves pressure, helps to dry
out the cavity and helps the healing processes.
Sometimes it pays to char the cavity surface with
a blow torch. Sometimes a disinfectant such as
Clorox or Lysol are applied. The cleaned cavity is
then coated with one application of orange shellac
to seal the surface from moisture. A wound dressing,
such as asphalt emulsion, should then be applied"

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you also do the above as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question evo, don't expect you'll actually get an honest answer though...
 
"Instead of saying stupid remarks, why doesn't someone say something intelligent? Other remedies, perhaps. Ya 1974 alright and everyone is ten."

Well 24 actually, but going on 10...Anyway you won't hear other remedies from these vultures. when they smell blood it's a mob impulse, like jumping on mrtree, who knows more than most here, for being a jerk.

The more you know the harder they jump. They're easy on you cuz you're young. Congrats for not losing your cool as they have.

Shigo referred to using foam to fill cavities. You can staple n some screen, spray foam, and paint it to match the bark. Proper arboriculture, depending on the objective.
 
[ QUOTE ]

The more you know the harder they jump.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guy,
Are you actually saying that about a guy pouring concrete into a tree!?

As I recall, many solutions have already been offered: excising, leaving it alone, chicken wire and staples, etc.

And no, I don't think anyone will be apologizing for pointing out a "professional" exercising unprofessional tree care, especially when it's responded to so ignorantly.

Would you?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The more you know the harder they jump.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guy,
Are you actually saying that about a guy pouring concrete into a tree!?
no silly i was talking about mrtree, who musta got into some bad likker.

As I recall, many solutions have already been offered: excising, leaving it alone, chicken wire and staples, etc.

ok it helps to read the whole thread
blush.gif
but the point remains the dogmatic criticsm was thick and deep while the help was nearly nil.

And no, I don't think anyone will be apologizing for pointing out a "professional" exercising unprofessional tree care, especially when it's responded to so ignorantly.

ok then no one need apologize for righteousness and condemnation of unprofessionalism as defined by dogma, instead of help; does a body good, yup. that which does not kill...of course i never condemn anything
grin.gif
 
Good to hear Guy. Thanks for being a Pro about it. The cavity that I filled was about 4 feet from the ground and was about a foot deep and a foot and a half wide. It was from a large branch that was cut off years ago. Scraped out the dead wood and filled it. Nothing else.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Good question evo, don't expect you'll actually get an honest answer though...

[/ QUOTE ]


Boy wonder, are you calling me a liar? Again big talk for over a computer screen. Shows me what type of person you are. My offer still stands. You want to talk tough? Why don't you tell everyone how you got to the university and who you worked for? I know you and heard stories. Hey u are better playing with lego's than actually doing real tree work. Real men build stuff out of steel or wood, not legos. So want to put down someone take a hard look in the mirror.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"If the cavity is to be filled, it must be drained and
if excessive moisture is present, cleaned out. If
necessary, a tight-fitting drain is installed upward
into the base of the cavity. Conduit is preferred. If
put in tight, wood fiber will expand around the
pipe to exclude oxygen. The chance of decay is
nil. Installing a drain relieves pressure, helps to dry
out the cavity and helps the healing processes.
Sometimes it pays to char the cavity surface with
a blow torch. Sometimes a disinfectant such as
Clorox or Lysol are applied. The cleaned cavity is
then coated with one application of orange shellac
to seal the surface from moisture. A wound dressing,
such as asphalt emulsion, should then be applied"

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you also do the above as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Did the question get answered?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Good to hear Guy. Thanks for being a Pro about it. The cavity that I filled was about 4 feet from the ground and was about a foot deep and a foot and a half wide. It was from a large branch that was cut off years ago. Scraped out the dead wood and filled it. Nothing else.

[/ QUOTE ]

robin here you go, and the pm was a surprise. I am willing to let it go but if you have something to say or ask then just do it. Maybe the way I do things is old school but it all boils down to if a care for trees, which I do. I don't appreciate the attacks that idiots do here and they should open their minds to ask "Why did you do that?" or perhaps "This is what we have done in this situation..." Finally Guy and Evo produced a intelligent answer which leads to a better discussion. Good luck to you and the family...

PS. Don' t call me a liar, I'm not and will speak the truth even if it costs me.. Just ask some of the people and customers that I have dealt with.
 
Ricky,

If you consider my challenges to your using an antiquated and discredited tree care technique an attack I'm going to ask you to consider showing some research or accepted current practices to defend filling tree trunks with concrete.

I'm not inclined to go and site chapter and verse from the many books that I've read. I will take the time here to transcribe from Richard J. Campana's 1999 book: Arboriculture: History and Development in North America.

From the chapter title page:

Ch. 21: Tree Surgeries and Cavities

"Cavity filling for the rich was the beginning of arboriculture."-A.L. Shigo

Here's the chapter summary, the chapter is 15 pages long, you should read the book, not just the chapter.

Summary:

One of the tree earliest practices in the newly institutionalized tree care profession of 1900, cavity work quickly accounted for ninety-five percent of tree care work. By the 1940s cavity work had dropped to five percent of arborist activity because of several factors, inculdingh general dissatisfaction with cavity treatment. by 1950 it was definitely a minor practice and would remain so.

Now, here are a few lines taken from the same chapter:

"By 1924 Haven Metcalf, chief forest pathologist of the USDA,...could see no evidence that cavity treatment prevented or even slowed the rate of internal wood decay."

"As late as 1933...the decline of cavity work was well under wa7...influened not only by continued failure to arrest decay, but by increasing evidence that it's claims could not be justified"

"By the end of the 1930s, Dr. Donald Welch, forest pathology professor at Cornell University, refuted claims made that filling of tree cavities improved the appearance of trees, that mechanical strength provided by soid fillings was better...He called attention to the lack of evidence to support such claims and to evidence suggesting the contrary. ...he noted that most cavity treatments collected and were drained of water. Such alternate wetting and drying, providing both water and air, were ideal for decay fungi; they were more of an aid to decay than constant saturation. Thus, he considered special provision for drainage to be worse than no drainage at all"

Read this:

http://californiagardenclubs.com/content/do-not-fill-tree-cavities-concrete


From Dr. Ed Gilman
 
Hey Tom lose the attitude, and gain respect. Why did you not post this or any info before? You have a job to do as a mod here and you need some work. To be honest, you should be ashamed of yourself.
 
Pffft...not a mod..co-owner.

And...I have a fulltime job too.

Chiding me about my 'job' on TB makes me chuckle :)

Why didn't I post the info before? Because I have a job and a life outside of TB. It takes a block of time to do homework.

Attitude???

Respect???

Again...pfft...

If someone is doing something wrong, its still wrong, no matter how it gets called out.

I would expect that since I did my homework you'll do yours and show how filling trees with cement is still an accepted practice.

In the article that you linked the first bit was about wound tracing. Shigo showed over and over that the larger the wound the more decay would come. Tracing has been put on the history shelf.

Now, don't consider debriding as tracing, they're two different things.
 
Nice show of patience there, Tom. I hope Ricky appreciates the effort and makes some effort of his own to study the situation. The risk of offering info here is that people take it for granted and expect to be spoonfed all the details every time.

Entitlement is a toxic state of mind.

In the words of a Cuban women who caught me ogling her on a dance floor, "Thees eez not a teevee show!" (IOW, Get off your asp and dance through some references, Ricky!)

Definitions have tightened up and are more useful now; proper "tracing" does not include cutting away living, attached tissue. Tracing is A300 standard practice. The removal of loose, damaged tissue from in and around the wound (ANSI A300)
 
I've just read this entire thread and I actually feel a little sick.


Thank you so much to the great people who still post on this forum. And to the ones who once posted lots and now less so, I see why.



Ricky, humility.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom