Newbie question about self lining

[treemd]

Hi guys, been a little while since I have visited being that my computer crapped out on me for a little while.

My question is not actually for myself but for a friend who is a hunter. He is wanting to rig a static line in a ladder tree stand so he can ascend and descend as well as bowhunt without ever being untethered. Pretty smart if you ask me as most hunting accidents involve climbing a tree.

Anyway, he made up a diagram of what he is wanting to do and asked me for some input. I am not an expert at SRT as most of my climbing is done on a doubled rope. He is wanting to rig a static line, anchored at both ends and use a harness with just a plain Jane prussic knot to ascend and descend on. My book "On Rope" describes this as self lining and shows the climber using a Gibbs ascender in conjunction with a shoulder strap drag line. I advised him that a prussic is mainly used for descent on a doubled rope and is only mentioned as use for a back up on a single line. I also told him he will have to use one hand to break the knot while using a prussic. I can find no mention of using a solitary prussic (except for warning against it in most climbing applications) for ascent or descent in On Rope or anywhere else and have never tried it myself.

I thought I would bring the question here and get some input from some experienced SRT climbers.

Here is the diagram of what he is trying to do. Thoughts, opinions, advice is welcome. I am trying to keep him from killing himself. My fear is that in the event he becomes unconscious he would be suspended upside down or not be able to get back to the ladder and have problems reaching the ground.

 

[moss]

You have the right idea for the self tending ascender system for going up. Going down he's going to need a rappel device but I think anchoring the rope at the bottom is going to defeat that possibility.

There's no hitch yet invented that will work well for SRT descent. A skilled climber can do it in a pinch by locking the rope with their feet and inching down with the hitch that way.

One-handed ladder climbing down with the other hand releasing the hitch is possible but there are a few ways that could go very wrong.

He needs practical technical climbing experience before designing a safety system.
-moss

 

[Colin]

tell him to buy a uni. also tie i rock or log to the tail instead of tying it of to the bas of the tree. tom has a used on he will sell him.

 

[Ron]

treemd,

I'm not sure, but I get the impression since you mention a 'ladder stand' in your text, and show a ladder in the diagram, that the purpose of the rope is only for backup in case something goes wrong climbing the ladder. Otherwise your friend is gonna need more than just a prusik to climb a rope. Well, two would do it, sort of, but it'd be a lot easier to climb the ladder than to do some kind of two prusik sit-stand ascending.

If the prusik is there just for a backup, almost a self-belay, a prusik may work going up, but it may catch also. The same is true for going down.

There are a couple of other friction hitches that might advance up the rope more freely than a prusik, one would be a Kliemheist (sp?).

Whatever he uses needs to be thoroughly tested to make sure it will grab and provide the backup he expects it to.

 

[matdand]

Maybe on the descent he could just use a fig 8 and a the prusik to back it up.

 

[treemd]

I went ahead and shared what Moss had to say with him and advised him to go with a doubled rope and a traditional, closed system if he still wants to make a safety system. I explained that it would be much simpler and cost effective for him. Less gear in the system, less chance of something going wrong. He has his prussic knot down and I don't think setting up a traditional climbing system would be beyond his capabilities. I told him I would show him step by step what to do and advised him about learning low and slow. I just wouldn't feel good about advising someone with no experience to jump out there on a single line. Especially since I am still learning myself.

You are correct about it being a backup for a ladder. It is a set of ladder sticks that fit together and cinch to the tree with a belt. I hunt out of one as well and it can be awkward getting in and out of the stand, stepping off and onto the ladder. I just climb it and strap in with a regular hunter's safety harness and unstrap and climb down when I'm done. It would be nice to have a safety system for ascending and descending. Most of the guys setting these things up are doing so one handed while hanging off the ladder sticks. I use my climbing gear to install them which makes it safer and easier.

Thanks for the input and replies.

 

[davej]

I didn't like the way the diagram seemed to hint that the climbing rope would be left in the tree. If you have him go with doubled rope technique he can leave a small line in the tree to pull the rope up with each morning.