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You will pick up more work if you offer hauling as well. The issue is that hauling without a loader and chipper will be more work than the climbing. Especially if your hand unloading a trailer as well.

As far as staying busy, it simply requires being at it a little longer as I think your just starting out if I remember correctly. You just have to build that client base and word of mouth to get more work coming in. Free venue's to advertise on are good as well.

Unless you truly want to haul the debris away, you may be better off advertising as a discounted service to get it down with no cleanup. Or find another company with a mini and grapple truck who wants to make a few hundred bucks off of some quick work of loading your debris that's out by the street.
 
Not sure how it goes with the free advertising bit in your area - but i do it here and find you have to be very careful on pricing as often those clients in my area have been through the mainstream marketing avenues for quotes to find them unpalatable.

It is a very challenging exercise though as doing technical rigging on a very tight budget is good training. Stresses you out though. You know you have underquoted on some jobs when after giving the quote you find out that half a dozen tree companies refused to quote the job.... :(
 
If you keep them until their wheels fall off, you're going to need some advanced mechanical skills, I think. Everything is complicated.


I make more profit doing tree work than my retired neighbor-mechanic charges, and he's outfitted, and better at mechanic'ing, welding, working on old machines.

Maybe you need a good mechanic and a tough work truck????




You can make a good chunk of money on the side by being a good spurless pruner, creating small amounts of debris, either for homeowners to handle or to haul in a trailer, and removals where you Put On Ground Only, or buck the bigger wood.

House clearance (house sales need someone to come in NOW, for a little job)...need Lic, Ins, bonding to work for Realtors/ get their recommendation to their clients.
View screening and view improvement pruning.
Fixing ornamentals that their landscraper has screwed up.

You are competing with equiped and non-equiped companies/ people. If you are good enough at spurless pruning one important tree, you might get a couple little cake-walk removals, too, that would have gone to the other guy.

If you went to the doctor and understood everything they said, would you be a bit worried? Proper terminology to back up knowledge and experience can sell the pruning job---

3-step Targeted Branch-collar pruning cut
Branch protection zone
CODIT
Compartmentalization ("quarantine", "seal" not "heal")
Seasonal timing (disease vectors, trees that 'bleed' a lot, not when "going to sleep or waking up".



Removals need the large amount of material processed effectively to make money.

Would you rather be paid for moving 200 pounds of climber around a tree where they can't get a bucket truck, pulling a trigger or handsaw, and not smashing stuff, or being a material handler, raker, blower, truck driver, disposal operation?




A local arborist, who had some injuries, has a 6" vermeer and a Tundra, only does ground-based pruning. Low overhead. One mouth to feed. Totally on his schedule.


When its sh*tty weather, don't worry about making a payment, stay inside with the family.
 
I think if you're willing to spend the money for a new truck (Presumably in the $35-75k range), you should put together some cash and/or borrow some, and start a little bit bigger of an operation. Hard to have one foot in and one foot out..... Family or no, there's lots of money in tree work. Sometimes you just have to go for it.....

Bought an f350 diesel for 3500 bucks from my brother to start out. Thought I was going to be smart and pull the bed off and install a dump body on it. Terrible idea... It's 5 years later and I'm an easy 20k into the truck--though it's run mint for a few years now-- it's just not that useful. Too small. If it didn't have 4x4 I'd literally never use it. Only reason I haven't sold it is out of embarrassment for the money I have into it. If it's a single rear wheel, you just can't do much. Please believe me.

I've since bought two late 90's international dt444e trucks. Same motor, 7.3. One I bought for $6700 bucks 4 years ago. Literally put 3k into it right out of the gate and it's never let me down. Towing a 7500lb chipper. Just regular maintenance. It's covered in toolboxes. I have way more room than I need for gear, and still holds probably 12 yards of chips.
^^Half the money of my single rear wheel and between 2-3x as useful/profitable.

Wait for a good deal on a real 6 wheel truck with toolboxes. Something topping out the class D license - 26,000. Way easier to work on. Parts are more, sure, but you're going to make way more money on your dollar with a truck of that caliber than you can with a pickup. Going to have to learn how to work on it or find someone you trust who can. Just the way it is. Takes a while unless you're lucky enough to know someone already. Then finance a prius for like 10k. 50 miles to the gallon all day and you'll never have to do anything to it. Plenty of room for the kids and way quieter/cheaper to run.

Find a local farmer or something and tell him you'll bring him all the chips/firewood if he lets you leave the truck somewhere on his property. Buy him a few thirty racks... Couple hundred bucks maybe.

Idk. Just my nature/opinion, but it makes me cringe when people buy new trucks. Guy I bought the aforementioned international from sold it to me, and was about to finance an $80k dodge 5500 chip truck. I am certain I'm making way more money with his old truck for under 10k ready to go than he is with that truck. There's just no way it could be worth it....




I think if you searched and took your time you could have a solid working chip truck and chipper for 30k. Throw in the prius for another 10k. You're at 40k ready to roll. Seriously productive at work, and great gas mileage when you're rolling with the fam. If you're smooth you could find a parking spot for truck and chipper for dumping wood/chips to a farmer. Maybe split some wood for him when you're slow. Cut a few trees for him.

Be making way more money for the same or lower cost than a brand new single rear wheel pickup that you really can't do much with.........................
 
southsoundtree said:
If you keep them until their wheels fall off, you're going to need some advanced mechanical skills, I think. Everything is complicated.


I make more profit doing tree work than my retired neighbor-mechanic charges, and he's outfitted, and better at mechanic'ing, welding, working on old machines.

Maybe you need a good mechanic and a tough work truck????




You can make a good chunk of money on the side by being a good spurless pruner, creating small amounts of debris, either for homeowners to handle or to haul in a trailer, and removals where you Put On Ground Only, or buck the bigger wood.

House clearance (house sales need someone to come in NOW, for a little job)...need Lic, Ins, bonding to work for Realtors/ get their recommendation to their clients.
View screening and view improvement pruning.
Fixing ornamentals that their landscraper has screwed up.

You are competing with equiped and non-equiped companies/ people. If you are good enough at spurless pruning one important tree, you might get a couple little cake-walk removals, too, that would have gone to the other guy.

If you went to the doctor and understood everything they said, would you be a bit worried? Proper terminology to back up knowledge and experience can sell the pruning job---

3-step Targeted Branch-collar pruning cut
Branch protection zone
CODIT
Compartmentalization ("quarantine", "seal" not "heal")
Seasonal timing (disease vectors, trees that 'bleed' a lot, not when "going to sleep or waking up".



Removals need the large amount of material processed effectively to make money.

Would you rather be paid for moving 200 pounds of climber around a tree where they can't get a bucket truck, pulling a trigger or handsaw, and not smashing stuff, or being a material handler, raker, blower, truck driver, disposal operation?




A local arborist, who had some injuries, has a 6" vermeer and a Tundra, only does ground-based pruning. Low overhead. One mouth to feed. Totally on his schedule.


When its sh*tty weather, don't worry about making a payment, stay inside with the family.
Click to expand...

Sean, it's comments like yours that make me so glad that I've not pulled the trigger on anything yet, and have stopped to ask the more thoughtful/experienced.

That is a lot to chew on. And in my gut, what you detail there is what I'm afraid of - that this actually would put me out of my league in terms of jobs I have time to take, or want to take.

Are you saying deep winter or deep summer are the best times to prune?

After working with a crew this past Friday (same one I've done some training sessions with), and seeing what they had to say about the 2500's and F250's, I had been heavily leaving towards those vehicles, but you have me re-thinking that...
 
Stoppema has good advise so worth considering. It all had to do with operating out of budget you have, what sort of backing you have access to if you have a hiccup, parking availability, security of equipment, skillset, economic environment etc
 
The 3/4 ton pickup is a lame family vehicle at the ~10mpg that my 6.0L Chevy gets. I like the breakdown @Sfoppema did with buying a car and dump while coming out below a new pickup, realistic, net more money, less wear on work vehicle, and burn way less fuel.

Whatever you do will be fine for sidework, I started with a $1200 Accord twichin brush... You are super green with lots of gleaned info and shiny gear (not meant as a jab), but in 5 yrs you'll be in a totally different place in regards to your arborist wants and needs. Hindsight will be "I shoulda got a dump with an L-pack" or "I shoulda been a lawyer."

Dump trailer is hard to beat for function:cost:maintenance starting out and they are super for other stuff like helping folks moving, getting garden soil/mulch, gravel for filling potholes, building materials... I'll sometimes let friends load it at their house/jobsite and then charge a small trucking fee, good for both of us. UDump (like colb referenced) has been awesome and had great attention to detail, had it about 5yrs after tons of research on which company to buy from.
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned or not but you also need to figure out if hauling brush is even a viable option for your market.
Where we live, I can only dump brush and junk wood at the landfill at $42/ton, not to mention it's a little bit out of the way and is only open 8-4 on weekdays and half days on Saturday.
On the other hand I can get rid of chips almost anywhere. I can blow them into the woods alot of the time. With a smaller truck, it's a good amount for the homeowner or a neighbor to keep a load, and I can wiggle into the out-of-the-way places they often want it dumped. If all else fails and I'm hauling the chips off site, I have half a dozen locations around the area that will take endless amounts of chips for free, the same goes for firewood logs. That and I can fit probably ten times the chips in my little dump truck that I can in brush, and it's a lot quicker to load.

I know some folks have endless places to dump brush for free or cheap but where we are it just doesn't make sense. Honestly if I couldn't chip brush I would only do no-cleanup jobs for side work. You're not going to be price competitive and still make a profit loading and hauling and unloading things by hand.

You can buy a decent small dump for 10k, same goes for a chipper, and a small car or 4cyl pickup or SUV. Of course if you wanna turn a few wrenches trucks can be had much cheaper. Those old 80s Ford and Chevy one ton dumps can be had for less than 5k in decent condition, with a big block and a 4spd they are tough and easy to work on. Plus parts are available everywhere and are cheap.
 
One more option that I use for hauling wood off, I usually chip up brush and would need to drive back for the bigger wood, is to hire a guy with a roll off dumpster service. For $100/load he drops off a 16 foot roll off dumpster, I load it with the mini and he comes back and hauls it off. It saves me a lot of time when working by myself as I don't have to drive back and forth and its actually cheaper than renting a 6X10 dump trailer for the day. He has a 10, 15, and 20 yard container depending on what I need and will either haul it to where I dispose of wood and chips or to my home to use for firewood.
 
Big trucks make more money when there is a crew working to fill them, or you have iron to feed/ load them.



A mini with a grapple can make a mole-hill out of the right mountain.

Depends a lot on your trees. Some trees here, I can feed with the mini without much manual prep. Doug-fir trees usually need piles made, some will feed by machine, some not.

If you can chip onsite as needed, you can build a rental chipper into the cost.
Being able to move the big material for people with a mini, can take the heavy work out of people cleaning their own trees.
You move the logs and brush onsite, rather than offsite, as customer's need.

You don't want to serve all customers, you want customers who fits your time, skills, and machines. Until you can effectively handle material, handle it as little as possible.





Also, when you're doing homeowner clean-up job that will take two days, doing half the trees one weekend day, and let the homeowner clean-up, then coming back to do the rest the next weekend will be easier on you. Others, just keep on trucking.

People act like it should be easy to work in/ ono a big pile of debris.

If you strip a big conifer, you could have a pile 8-10' high, and need to fell the spar. Letting them clear out the base can save work, and be safer. Splitting that job into two weekends can be safer and easier on both ends, especially when new, where your efficiency, mental and physical stamina are all building, and production is lower.




If there is a grapple-truck hauling service nearby, USE IT.
 
Started a thread about a truck, and it transmogrified into me re-thinking my vision for what I'm trying to accomplish...(that's great, btw). My current thoughts/ramblings follow...

I need to get a replacement truck for the one I'm giving away. I can't justify in any sense at this point in time, having three vehicles (a 1-ton plus an alternate, cheap, and fuel-efficient family vehicle), or having only a single family-useable vehicle (that is, just have one family-capable vehicle and a 1-ton). That's just what it is.

I was hoping that a 3/4 ton would allow me to haul debris from pruning and small removals (opening up a few more opportunities, perhaps), while allowing the possibility of expanding my capabilities in the future. But, I have no plans to own a skidder or grapple, and would be hand-loading everything. This would require, on even moderately-sized jobs, more time than I'd probably be willing to currently commit on an every-two-week type of basis, at any point in time while also having a another, main job. In other words, a large truck seems like, after considering all you guys are saying, it will enable me to do (with the right support equipment and/or time) much more than I'm even willing to do right now.

However, I still gotta have a truck once I get rid of my current one. So, that leaves me with the possibility of going 1/2 ton to save on up-front expense, but still have brush-and small removal-hauling capacity. Fuel costs would be moderately better, but I'm not driving enough per year that fuel costs are a large factor.

But, still considering what all I could rent -chippers, subcontract someone else to haul, etc. In the case where I subcon the hauling, would that potentially still allow me to get into some bigger jobs, but totally truck-free, and still be making a decent profit? I've never even heard of a grapple truck hauling service. Will check this out.
 
Was on the fence between a 3/4 and a 1/2. Bought my tundra at a good price and love it. Tows my 6.5x12 10k dump trailer with anything I can fit in it no problem and under my tow ratings. Gets 15mpg empty or 13ish towing, 10 towing heavy. I have friends who grossly overload their tundras, 15-20k towing skid steer sand mini excavators and they’ve been solid trucks for them as well
 
When I started out on my own, I had a 83 buick regal. I'd get a dumpster dropped by a mulch company, or hire another company to haul for me until I made enough money to get my first truck. One time I rented a uhaul pickup and did a $700 job with it. Not a bad day for one guy. My first truck was an extended cab 1993 chevy 3500 dually pickup. I built removable plywood sides for it and mulched brush up in the back with a chain saw. I had to pitch fork it out, sometimes twice or more a day. I didn't care that it was hard. I was willing to do whatever it took to make it work and get jobs done. I had to load and unload the logs by hand too. It was a game changer when I finally got a chipper! I traded the 83 buick for it. Still had to pitchfork the chips out. Finally got money to put a dump bed on it. I built a rig and used a pully set to lift it onto the truck myself out in the gravel parking area shared by me and my neighbors. They loved me. I finished it at night in the snow and used it on a job in the morning. I still have that truck.
 
Jehinten said:
One more option that I use for hauling wood off, I usually chip up brush and would need to drive back for the bigger wood, is to hire a guy with a roll off dumpster service. For $100/load he drops off a 16 foot roll off dumpster, I load it with the mini and he comes back and hauls it off. It saves me a lot of time when working by myself as I don't have to drive back and forth and its actually cheaper than renting a 6X10 dump trailer for the day. He has a 10, 15, and 20 yard container depending on what I need and will either haul it to where I dispose of wood and chips or to my home to use for firewood.
Click to expand...
I wish I would have known a dumpster guy that cheap. The only guys around me have 40 yarders for $400-$475 a pop.
 
I think, initially, I'm going to do an advertising push and really try to see how many no-haul jobs I can get. They aren't currently coming in at a rate that keeps me as just as I want to be. Gut tells me I've not reached 'critical mass' yet.

In the meantime, I'm going to look at what is available near me in terms of hauling services, dumpster drop off, etc. The various means of limiting overhead like y'all have described seems desirable to me. Possibly the only things I'd need is a truck that could still pull a much smaller trailer (since bed itself keeps equipment), and something like an Arbor Trolley. Climbed for a crew last Friday and actually got to use one of those. Awesome tool!

Edit: still need a truck tho xD
 
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If you want to only use a dumpster for your debris, get good at chainsaw chipping. You'll be surprised at how much you can fit into a dumpster. If you load the brush in the same size that you drag it out, you'll be surprised at how little will fit in there.
 
8x10 tilt trailer (for atvs/snowmobiles etc) would give decent brush capacity with 4 or 5ft sides and easily towed behind half ton. Lay rope down prior to loading tie to log at dump and drive off. Saw a guy at the dump yesterday with 6x10 or12 homemade dump trailer and half ton wasnt squatting too bad. This is assuming you can dispose of brush for cheap/free.

Be careful what you wish for there has been at least one member here that got into the side gig so heavily it ruined the tree biz for him. The quick cash aint so quick or easy once you start being legit.
 
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