- Location
- sunny Madison, WI
"New" throwbags
- Thread starter Zac
- Start date
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
Re: \"New\" throwbags
what a friggin no brainer idea putting all that lead inside a balloon. Good job fellas. so common sense but so overlooked for too long.
what a friggin no brainer idea putting all that lead inside a balloon. Good job fellas. so common sense but so overlooked for too long.
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Re: \"New\" throwbags
This is important to me, so I'll share:
The design is copied from the Harrison Rocket. The Rocket (Fresco _link_: https://ecomecs.securesites.com/cgi-bin/...29339839-33921) is made in New Zealand by arborist Andy Harrison and his wife. So far, it is the best throwbag I've used. I got my first one about 4 years ago and it lasted until I lost it in the duff below a sycamore. I keep meaning to go back there with a metal detector!
The design IS clean. When you are trying to isolate a branch, the Rocket slides easily through the canopy. It is very flexible.
The bag is filled with lead. Regardless of what people say about lead not being THAT dangerous, I'm still leery of it. In the couple bags that I've made, I use steel to bypass the lead. The Rocket incorporates an internal bladder that encases the lead so the lead "powder" stays inside.
I like the 2 color design. The contrast makes it easier to see.
Here's the trade off. The Rocket is made by a tiny outfit in New Zealand. When you buy them, they are like $23 or something like that. I don't mind paying that at all. I like supporting innovation. I'd rather buy a climbing line from Yale, New England, or Samson- because they invest so much in research...I really do think everyone else is just copying what they do. The same goes with the Rocket. The Harrison's have made making good gear for us part of their life. It is appropriate to support them.
love
nick
ps- I like the bright colors of the Neo.
This is important to me, so I'll share:
The design is copied from the Harrison Rocket. The Rocket (Fresco _link_: https://ecomecs.securesites.com/cgi-bin/...29339839-33921) is made in New Zealand by arborist Andy Harrison and his wife. So far, it is the best throwbag I've used. I got my first one about 4 years ago and it lasted until I lost it in the duff below a sycamore. I keep meaning to go back there with a metal detector!
The design IS clean. When you are trying to isolate a branch, the Rocket slides easily through the canopy. It is very flexible.
The bag is filled with lead. Regardless of what people say about lead not being THAT dangerous, I'm still leery of it. In the couple bags that I've made, I use steel to bypass the lead. The Rocket incorporates an internal bladder that encases the lead so the lead "powder" stays inside.
I like the 2 color design. The contrast makes it easier to see.
Here's the trade off. The Rocket is made by a tiny outfit in New Zealand. When you buy them, they are like $23 or something like that. I don't mind paying that at all. I like supporting innovation. I'd rather buy a climbing line from Yale, New England, or Samson- because they invest so much in research...I really do think everyone else is just copying what they do. The same goes with the Rocket. The Harrison's have made making good gear for us part of their life. It is appropriate to support them.
love
nick
ps- I like the bright colors of the Neo.
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
Re: \"New\" throwbags
100% agree Nick with everthing you wrote Harrison rockets are the Bishops tipple of throw bags...bloody excellent if any of you climbers out there get the chance buy one you won't ever regret it.
100% agree Nick with everthing you wrote Harrison rockets are the Bishops tipple of throw bags...bloody excellent if any of you climbers out there get the chance buy one you won't ever regret it.
- Location
- Victoria, BC
Re: \"New\" throwbags
I need new throw bags and was looking into these. The only thing that I thought might be a problem is the small size of the ring. I thought it might be cumbersome when tying/clipping to. Also it is small enough it will easily pass through the small ring of a friction saver. Could the bag get wedged if wetting a FS from the ground? Can anyone who's used them shed light on this.
I need new throw bags and was looking into these. The only thing that I thought might be a problem is the small size of the ring. I thought it might be cumbersome when tying/clipping to. Also it is small enough it will easily pass through the small ring of a friction saver. Could the bag get wedged if wetting a FS from the ground? Can anyone who's used them shed light on this.
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
Re: \"New\" throwbags
I quess it depends on the method of FS installation, yes the smaller ring can be an issue as can the size of the bag itself, I add a biner to the ring when installing but I use the rope through one side method when installing FS.
I quess it depends on the method of FS installation, yes the smaller ring can be an issue as can the size of the bag itself, I add a biner to the ring when installing but I use the rope through one side method when installing FS.
- Location
- Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Re: \"New\" throwbags
If they're not made by Harrisons then there must be some kind of patent infringement here, they've even copied the H stitching at the top of the bag that is the Harrison's trademark!!
Can you just blatantly copy other manufacturer's designs?
I use and will continue to use the original Harrison Rocket.
If they're not made by Harrisons then there must be some kind of patent infringement here, they've even copied the H stitching at the top of the bag that is the Harrison's trademark!!
Can you just blatantly copy other manufacturer's designs?
I use and will continue to use the original Harrison Rocket.
Treespotter
New member
- Location
- Houten, The Netherlands
Re: \"New\" throwbags
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the trade off. The Rocket is made by a tiny outfit in New Zealand. When you buy them, they are like $23 or something like that. I don't mind paying that at all. I like supporting innovation. I'd rather buy a climbing line from Yale, New England, or Samson- because they invest so much in research...I really do think everyone else is just copying what they do. The same goes with the Rocket. The Harrison's have made making good gear for us part of their life. It is appropriate to support them.
love
nick
ps- I like the bright colors of the Neo.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry Tobe, your post (not the quoted one above) shows you are a reseller and always will be a damn good reseller (mind you, there is nothing wrong with making good money). It's great that you even suggest a fee for the developers but why not just put your Sherriltree brand on the existing product and sell it in your own colours.
I really hope the Harrison family had a vote in the 'Weaver deal'.
Once in a while someone comes up with a great idea and I love to support that good idea and make sure everyone knows what I think of that product and why it's worth supporting.
The only hurdle I had to take on the rockets was the fact that those little pouches had to be 'shipped' from the other side of the globe.
The only way that we can ensure someone will rise from the mediocre is to back the product up if it's good.
What's the use in spending loads of cash when you know someone will walk away with your product design.
Falteimer? The Good Winch? The Harrison Rockets? Back it up. Their great products made by admirable people. Shame on the cheap copycats that steal the bread of those honest folks.
Lets make sure we're not going to act 'the Chinese way' and kill what's worth living for.
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the trade off. The Rocket is made by a tiny outfit in New Zealand. When you buy them, they are like $23 or something like that. I don't mind paying that at all. I like supporting innovation. I'd rather buy a climbing line from Yale, New England, or Samson- because they invest so much in research...I really do think everyone else is just copying what they do. The same goes with the Rocket. The Harrison's have made making good gear for us part of their life. It is appropriate to support them.
love
nick
ps- I like the bright colors of the Neo.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry Tobe, your post (not the quoted one above) shows you are a reseller and always will be a damn good reseller (mind you, there is nothing wrong with making good money). It's great that you even suggest a fee for the developers but why not just put your Sherriltree brand on the existing product and sell it in your own colours.
I really hope the Harrison family had a vote in the 'Weaver deal'.
Once in a while someone comes up with a great idea and I love to support that good idea and make sure everyone knows what I think of that product and why it's worth supporting.
The only hurdle I had to take on the rockets was the fact that those little pouches had to be 'shipped' from the other side of the globe.
The only way that we can ensure someone will rise from the mediocre is to back the product up if it's good.
What's the use in spending loads of cash when you know someone will walk away with your product design.
Falteimer? The Good Winch? The Harrison Rockets? Back it up. Their great products made by admirable people. Shame on the cheap copycats that steal the bread of those honest folks.
Lets make sure we're not going to act 'the Chinese way' and kill what's worth living for.
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Re: \"New\" throwbags
I think it is good that you sell the Faltheimer AND the sherrill version. There are those of use that are guided by the mighty dollar- and as a retailer, you sorta have to appeal to those people. I like seeing that we have that option to look deeper into our purchase with the throwline cubes. I wonder what the faltheimer/sherrill cube ratio is...as far as how many of each do you sell. I wouldn't be suprised if it is 95% Sherrill cube. But still, the choice is there.
I would've liked to have seen a similar representation in your catalog for the throwbags. No matter who is making them, or how weaver got the idea...anyone can see that that design was copied (even if slightly changed) from Harrison.
Regarding patents- you're right about that. If you make a product with no patent, you are setting yourself up to be vulnerable to someone "borrowing" your idea. I know there are other people here reading this forum that have looked into getting patents (my self included) for ideas here and there. The fact of the matter is that it is expensive and can be quite time consuming. We are in a cottage industry. Often times it would be impossible to sell enough items to justify the cost of the patent.
It would be neat if there was some sort of way to acknowledge those people that come up with these great ideas.
love
nick
I think it is good that you sell the Faltheimer AND the sherrill version. There are those of use that are guided by the mighty dollar- and as a retailer, you sorta have to appeal to those people. I like seeing that we have that option to look deeper into our purchase with the throwline cubes. I wonder what the faltheimer/sherrill cube ratio is...as far as how many of each do you sell. I wouldn't be suprised if it is 95% Sherrill cube. But still, the choice is there.
I would've liked to have seen a similar representation in your catalog for the throwbags. No matter who is making them, or how weaver got the idea...anyone can see that that design was copied (even if slightly changed) from Harrison.
Regarding patents- you're right about that. If you make a product with no patent, you are setting yourself up to be vulnerable to someone "borrowing" your idea. I know there are other people here reading this forum that have looked into getting patents (my self included) for ideas here and there. The fact of the matter is that it is expensive and can be quite time consuming. We are in a cottage industry. Often times it would be impossible to sell enough items to justify the cost of the patent.
It would be neat if there was some sort of way to acknowledge those people that come up with these great ideas.
love
nick
- Location
- minneapolis, mn
Re: \"New\" throwbags
transportation issues? are these bags in fact manufactured in the usa with usa materials?
transportation issues? are these bags in fact manufactured in the usa with usa materials?
- Location
- sunny Madison, WI
Re: \"New\" throwbags
The rocket is made in New Zealand. I'm not sure if Tobe was saying that Weaver produces these new bags or somebody else.
The rocket is made in New Zealand. I'm not sure if Tobe was saying that Weaver produces these new bags or somebody else.
Re: \"New\" throwbags
Made in china the sherril brand..i have one.
Made in china the sherril brand..i have one.
- Location
- Austin, TX
Re: \"New\" throwbags
Not sure about the china thing. Not sure I care...at least it is a product that SHOULD contain lead.
What is there to patent? It is a bag full of lead, hardly patentable. A balloon in a bag with stitching and a small ring? "H" stitching?? Isn't that a TM and not a patent?
Andy has done well off these bags they have been popular for years now. I have thrown one since 02. A patent only affords the inventor advantage for X number of years. Andy has reaped these benefits sans patent.
The other point is he had the opportunity to work with resellers. That is business, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I would say he has won. He has sold bags for $20-$25 a pop for years now while others sold for $10. Good for him. Time for some healthy competition and maybe time for an even newer bag design.
Sherrill is a great company. They seem to treat their customers and their suppliers the way they would want to be treated.
I wouldn't jump on Sherrill and co. I saw these for sale on the freeworker site months ago.
.02
Not sure about the china thing. Not sure I care...at least it is a product that SHOULD contain lead.
What is there to patent? It is a bag full of lead, hardly patentable. A balloon in a bag with stitching and a small ring? "H" stitching?? Isn't that a TM and not a patent?
Andy has done well off these bags they have been popular for years now. I have thrown one since 02. A patent only affords the inventor advantage for X number of years. Andy has reaped these benefits sans patent.
The other point is he had the opportunity to work with resellers. That is business, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I would say he has won. He has sold bags for $20-$25 a pop for years now while others sold for $10. Good for him. Time for some healthy competition and maybe time for an even newer bag design.
Sherrill is a great company. They seem to treat their customers and their suppliers the way they would want to be treated.
I wouldn't jump on Sherrill and co. I saw these for sale on the freeworker site months ago.
.02
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
Re: \"New\" throwbags
Nathan
It sounds like what you’re saying is screw Andy Harrison and his little business in New Zealand, let the big guns rule supreme. Is that correct?
What astonishes me is the fact that Harrison has just a tiny weenie piece of a huge pie and yet the big companies, who already have so much of it, want his piece also.
You suggest that it may be time for newer, better throwbags, perhaps you’re right, but that shouldn’t mean pinch another mans idea/work as part of the process.
No patent you say, its just business so its fair game etc...
As a man first and foremost (forget business), if I ever realized that I’d behaved in such a way, I’d be utterly ashamed of myself.
Code of ethics my friend, call me naïve but if it wasn't for the fact that there are still people out there who do manage to uphold a strong sense of moral obligation in their day to day decisions, whether business or otherwise, we'd be a pretty hopeless bunch IMO
Our industry needn't be dog-eat-dog, surely we can be better than that!
Nathan
It sounds like what you’re saying is screw Andy Harrison and his little business in New Zealand, let the big guns rule supreme. Is that correct?
What astonishes me is the fact that Harrison has just a tiny weenie piece of a huge pie and yet the big companies, who already have so much of it, want his piece also.
You suggest that it may be time for newer, better throwbags, perhaps you’re right, but that shouldn’t mean pinch another mans idea/work as part of the process.
No patent you say, its just business so its fair game etc...
As a man first and foremost (forget business), if I ever realized that I’d behaved in such a way, I’d be utterly ashamed of myself.
Code of ethics my friend, call me naïve but if it wasn't for the fact that there are still people out there who do manage to uphold a strong sense of moral obligation in their day to day decisions, whether business or otherwise, we'd be a pretty hopeless bunch IMO
Our industry needn't be dog-eat-dog, surely we can be better than that!
- Location
- Austin, TX
Re: \"New\" throwbags
[ QUOTE ]
Nathan
It sounds like what you’re saying is screw Andy Harrison and his little business in New Zealand, let the big guns rule supreme. Is that correct?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. He has enjoyed the benefits from his value added product for years now. Plus, who cares where his business is?
[ QUOTE ]
What astonishes me is the fact that Harrison has just a tiny weenie piece of a huge pie and yet the big companies, who already have so much of it, want his piece also.
[/ QUOTE ]
Really, his piece of the pie? Maybe he was taking a slice of the bigger pie when he started making a bag with a smaller ring and better stitching. From what it sounds like, they even offered to let him feed off their plate but he wanted to keep his own plate, well he has it.
[ QUOTE ]
You suggest that it may be time for newer, better throwbags, perhaps you’re right, but that shouldn’t mean pinch another mans idea/work as part of the process.
[/ QUOTE ]
He still has the idea and the work. But necessity is the mother of all invention.....
[ QUOTE ]
No patent you say, its just business so its fair game etc...
[/ QUOTE ]
Is it even a patentable idea? A bag with lead..hmmm
Back in the day there were no throwbags. Then weaver started selling a big ring bag with their trademark booger stitch. Where was the whinging when other manufacturers started making the same product, infringing on their idea?
[ QUOTE ]
As a man first and foremost (forget business), if I ever realized that I’d behaved in such a way, I’d be utterly ashamed of myself.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is business, not a group hug or tickle fight. Keep your customers happy or someone else will. Pretty simple when you think about it.
[ QUOTE ]
Code of ethics my friend, call me naïve but if it wasn't for the fact that there are still people out there who do manage to uphold a strong sense of moral obligation in their day to day decisions, whether business or otherwise, we'd be a pretty hopeless bunch IMO
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like everyone acted with the highest level of ethics. Where is the problem again
fo shizzle, brother Andrew can't even be bothered to chime in on the issue here at TB. Why don't someone send an invite??
[ QUOTE ]
Nathan
It sounds like what you’re saying is screw Andy Harrison and his little business in New Zealand, let the big guns rule supreme. Is that correct?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. He has enjoyed the benefits from his value added product for years now. Plus, who cares where his business is?
[ QUOTE ]
What astonishes me is the fact that Harrison has just a tiny weenie piece of a huge pie and yet the big companies, who already have so much of it, want his piece also.
[/ QUOTE ]
Really, his piece of the pie? Maybe he was taking a slice of the bigger pie when he started making a bag with a smaller ring and better stitching. From what it sounds like, they even offered to let him feed off their plate but he wanted to keep his own plate, well he has it.
[ QUOTE ]
You suggest that it may be time for newer, better throwbags, perhaps you’re right, but that shouldn’t mean pinch another mans idea/work as part of the process.
[/ QUOTE ]
He still has the idea and the work. But necessity is the mother of all invention.....
[ QUOTE ]
No patent you say, its just business so its fair game etc...
[/ QUOTE ]
Is it even a patentable idea? A bag with lead..hmmm
Back in the day there were no throwbags. Then weaver started selling a big ring bag with their trademark booger stitch. Where was the whinging when other manufacturers started making the same product, infringing on their idea?
[ QUOTE ]
As a man first and foremost (forget business), if I ever realized that I’d behaved in such a way, I’d be utterly ashamed of myself.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is business, not a group hug or tickle fight. Keep your customers happy or someone else will. Pretty simple when you think about it.
[ QUOTE ]
Code of ethics my friend, call me naïve but if it wasn't for the fact that there are still people out there who do manage to uphold a strong sense of moral obligation in their day to day decisions, whether business or otherwise, we'd be a pretty hopeless bunch IMO
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like everyone acted with the highest level of ethics. Where is the problem again
fo shizzle, brother Andrew can't even be bothered to chime in on the issue here at TB. Why don't someone send an invite??
- Location
- Florida
Re: \"New\" throwbags
As someone who sells gear in a retail environment, I have to respond to my customers and what they want. If customers come in day after day and ask for product X, I have to find a way to get them product X or they will buy it elsewhere. I have people ask about better throwbags all the time. Sherrill is just responding to the demands of their customers by making products available that are in demand. As soon as this thread got going I started looking for a way to get hold of some of those bags to sell myself.
As someone who sells gear in a retail environment, I have to respond to my customers and what they want. If customers come in day after day and ask for product X, I have to find a way to get them product X or they will buy it elsewhere. I have people ask about better throwbags all the time. Sherrill is just responding to the demands of their customers by making products available that are in demand. As soon as this thread got going I started looking for a way to get hold of some of those bags to sell myself.
- Location
- Austin, TX
Re: \"New\" throwbags
Glad people will be selling the new bags because I am going to buy 2 of the new bags for every whinging whining post about how some "little guy" is being taken advantage of sheesh!
Glad people will be selling the new bags because I am going to buy 2 of the new bags for every whinging whining post about how some "little guy" is being taken advantage of sheesh!
Treespotter
New member
- Location
- Houten, The Netherlands
Re: \"New\" throwbags
Do you want it to be me who keeps track of the score Nathan?
Season is opened. Who will be the first one to bankrupt Nathan
Do you want it to be me who keeps track of the score Nathan?
Season is opened. Who will be the first one to bankrupt Nathan
- Location
- Florida
Re: \"New\" throwbags
I just heard back from Weaver. The new throwbags are available from any Weaver dealer. It may take some time to get one; Weaver told me that there is currently a 3-week lag time to get the bags. They are available in 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16 oz sizes and "various colors." Retail price is $16.
I just heard back from Weaver. The new throwbags are available from any Weaver dealer. It may take some time to get one; Weaver told me that there is currently a 3-week lag time to get the bags. They are available in 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16 oz sizes and "various colors." Retail price is $16.
Treespotter
New member
- Location
- Houten, The Netherlands
Re: \"New\" throwbags
Does Roger's post count as nagging? Nah, guess not.
Does Roger's post count as nagging? Nah, guess not.
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