New climber looking for advice

[Dr. Cornwallis]

Alright, gents...I have my first real world scenario question. This tree is going to be one of my initial problem children, and I'm curious to see if my inexperienced assessment is even close to how you all might approach the climb and cut. The circled limb hangs over my garage, and I think based on the bark inclusion, and direction of growth, it should probably come down.

I would consider #1 to be the leader. After staring up into this tree for about 30 minutes (my neighbors probably think I'm on drugs hehe) I came up with the following plan. Ascending the leader to a point (not shown in the photo) where I can tie in above the whorl at point #2. Descend to that whorl and use that as my point to tie another line/pulley for supporting the soon to be cut limbs. Then descend to the limb to be cut and start working. I've skipped a few details, surely, but big picture, is that about the right approach?

Should my support point/pulley for the cut limbs not be in the same vertical plane as my climbing line? I've yet to stumble onto 'best practice' info on safely lowering branches.

As for the line to lower the cut limbs, is this where the difference between a rigging line and a climbing line comes into play? Rigging lines have more stretch and give and therefore should be used to support the cut primary branches?

How many cuts would you make on this branch? I was thinking three cuts, as I've marked in the photo, and the last cut could be made from the ground to remove the last section.

I still need to purchase extra lines and pulleys for a job like this...no real rush, I'm no where near ready to tackle this, but I'm now starting to look at every tree on my lot with a 'what would I do' mentality. Any recommendations on line, pulleys, etc.? So far I've only purchased climbing gear, nothing for getting branches to the ground.

I'm aware I'm probably getting ahead of myself a bit here, but I'd still like to know if I'm visualizing these future jobs with any sort of accuracy.

Thanks for reading!

It's hard to tell in that picture how far it hangs over your garage. Depending on that, I would likely tie in above, climb up and not rig at all but just cut small sections away until it clears the garage and then take that bigger section down in a few pieces. It doesn't look like that branch hangs over the garage much, and the piece that looks like it does doesn't look that big... however, that could just be because it's a picture.


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[Tony]

Alright, gents...I have my first real world scenario question. This tree is going to be one of my initial problem children, and I'm curious to see if my inexperienced assessment is even close to how you all might approach the climb and cut. The circled limb hangs over my garage, and I think based on the bark inclusion, and direction of growth, it should probably come down.

I would consider #1 to be the leader. After staring up into this tree for about 30 minutes (my neighbors probably think I'm on drugs hehe) I came up with the following plan. Ascending the leader to a point (not shown in the photo) where I can tie in above the whorl at point #2. Descend to that whorl and use that as my point to tie another line/pulley for supporting the soon to be cut limbs. Then descend to the limb to be cut and start working. I've skipped a few details, surely, but big picture, is that about the right approach?

Should my support point/pulley for the cut limbs not be in the same vertical plane as my climbing line? I've yet to stumble onto 'best practice' info on safely lowering branches.

As for the line to lower the cut limbs, is this where the difference between a rigging line and a climbing line comes into play? Rigging lines have more stretch and give and therefore should be used to support the cut primary branches?

How many cuts would you make on this branch? I was thinking three cuts, as I've marked in the photo, and the last cut could be made from the ground to remove the last section.

I still need to purchase extra lines and pulleys for a job like this...no real rush, I'm no where near ready to tackle this, but I'm now starting to look at every tree on my lot with a 'what would I do' mentality. Any recommendations on line, pulleys, etc.? So far I've only purchased climbing gear, nothing for getting branches to the ground.

I'm aware I'm probably getting ahead of myself a bit here, but I'd still like to know if I'm visualizing these future jobs with any sort of accuracy.

Thanks for reading!

If time is no issue, just climb your ass out there an make handasw cuts till it's only wood. Stripped logs are easier to "predict" and think of all the climbing practice you'll get. Use the suggestions given for tie in and redirect.

New climbers struggle with body positioning. No way to get that save prectice. So practice.

Tony

 

[Tony]

For the record, speaking as a professional arborist and trainer for 20+ years. I agree, to an extent, that self teaching through all the various methods is valid. It is by no means a replacement for, or equal to an "apprenticeship" type of learning with qualified mentor. Nor is it as good as a starting place as a hands on course. I am all for self learning, self direction and drive. I believe that a disciplined, drive person of reasonable intelligence can and do master this trade we call production arboriculture. I never had too I had plenty of family!

Disclaimers now all aside. I believe we have covered that and AntelopeRunner seems intelligent enough to acknowledge the limitations/benefits of "self learning" in the tree world.

That does not put aside the fact that while I respect the effort, this conversation is ranging from basic climbing and body positioning to multi-part rigging. This is quite the leap. Not that it cannot be handled, but parts are being skipped. Important parts. As with any skill a foundation must be laid. For production tree climbing that foundation is both physical and mental. Not only must you have the skill, you must be physically able to preform it.

AntelopeRunner, if time is a concern on this project I highly recommend you hire someone. If it is as it seems, a personal pursuit, a topic you wish to pursue, to gain knowledge, save some $$ and feel a sense of accomplishment for going DIY then by all means push on.

Here are my recommendation atop all the reading and education advice already given. (I will add to that go to a tree climbing comp. Watch, volunteer, engage. The experience will be invaluable if you are truly interested.)

Learn a climbing hitch. By learn I mean be able to tie it eyes closed, behind your back, someone screaming at you! Do this also with a termination knot of your choice, Fisherman's, Buntline or anchor. Then apply the same standard to a bowline and running bowline and footlock prussic (english prussic, kleimheist/manchard or kreutzklem/hedded).

Whilst you are mastering these basic knots, practice low and slow the work positioning system of your choice. Could be a moving rope system, could be a stationary rope system. (If and these terms are foreign, do what all serious students of the rope do, look them up!) By low and slow I mean on the ground, on a log on the ground, first few branches in your tree. Slowly progress to just getting in the tree, hands out eat trail mix, start to bounce around. How long? Till you feel confident and without doubt.

Whilst you are doing this! Set a line about 45 feet up on a very strong anchor point. Pass it over a suitable branch union capturing the main stem for support. Isolate it and let both ends touch the ground. This could be a project/goal of one of your initial "fun" climbs. With rope set and appropriately anchored, ascend to the highest point safely possible using the work positioning system you have been mastering. (you know eyes closed, people yelling) or a secured double rope footlock. (If footlocking learn to self rescue with a descent device.) Time yourself. When you can get tho the highest safe point in 45 seconds you are ready to discuss actual work in a tree. Tie in or descend appropriately you have taken step one and should feel accomplishment when your feet touch the ground.

Total time frame for all this? Could be a week, could be months. I don't know you. I don't know your fitness, I don't know your discipline or drive. I do know the physical/mental requirements of climbing. I do know how to develop climbers.

While we can debate the efficacy of self learning and the good and bad on youtube, none of the experienced guys here can deny the value and necessity of the physical strength to do this work. None can deny the practice and level of "mastery" one must posses in the fundamentals of knots, positioning, confidence developed through practice, especially perturbation while practicing, hence the time limit. (it's not just a physical test).

Good luck.

Tony

 

[FreeFallin]

Welcome @AntelopeRunner, good to see another cheese head on here, I am at the other end of the state. You are getting far better advise on this thread than I can offer so I will just switch back to lurk mode.

 

[DSMc]

....By learn I mean be able to tie it eyes closed, behind your back, someone screaming at you! ....

When you can get tho the highest safe point in 45 seconds you are ready to discuss actual work in a tree.......none of the experienced guys here can deny the value and necessity of the physical strength to do this work....

Great post, Tony! In the context of your post, the above statements are appropriate, however when viewed individually, not so much.

Hundreds of aerial workers using ropes for life support have done so safely without ever having learned to tie the tautline hitch behind their back.

Physical strength, while an asset, is not a prerequisite in all aspects of tree work.

 

[Jeff]

Purchase read and learn the above two books.
They are the most basic building blocks.

Amen!!!

 

[Tony]

Great post, Tony! In the context of your post, the above statements are appropriate, however when viewed individually, not so much.

Hundreds of aerial workers using ropes for life support have done so safely without ever having learned to tie the tautline hitch behind their back.

Physical strength, while an asset, is not a prerequisite in all aspects of tree work.

DSMc,

Agreed. However, my "requirements" while they seem dated and admittedly biased to the way I see the world are meant not soley as physical/ mental test. They show commitment. Something experience shows me is often lacking in new climbers. They want the end product without going through the process.

Physical strength is not a requirement for Arboriculture nor life in general these days, but it goes a long way for many reasons. Not the least of which is our minds and bodies are not seperate entities. Strenghten one, strengthen the other. I always reccommend it when someone asks!

Strenght can be increased in many ways. I choose the way I outlined for this particular instance, given the info provided.

Anyone can substitute as they see fit! Cheating just cheats yourself!

In the end, I know I tend to wax more philosophical that practicle at times. I thank you for pointing it out.

Tony

 

[Rrunner]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but always be tied into at least two points before making a cut. Also if you can avoid it I would suggest not
Climbing or working alone. Just quick non climbing related suggestions