National Geographic's Redwood Trees Issues

Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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Thank you, Mario. You scoured through the nooks and crannies of the Tree Story CD rom, and presented many of the truths contained within the stories. I really appreciate it.

It just gets me riled up every time I see this small group of elites ignoring the facts in the stories they publish. Some of which used my photographs and findings to nominate a prior champion without any mention of who steered them to the tree.

And that's just one bone of many I have to pick with the academy. I contacted NG in the early 80s offering a collection of photographs and stories of my exploits in the old growth canopy describing the use of line guns and single line techniques to enter it.

And all I've ever read that's been published about the subject comes from a very small group of people who just been doing it in the last 10 or so years.

I never started climbing the old growth redwoods to make a claim of being the first. It was their sheer size an height that inspired me to find the ways to do it. Though rough and old school at first, I admit, I did refine my methods to those that are in popular use today, in the early 80's.

And today anybody outside the circle of elites found climbing the trees is shunned. And all that does is broaden the gap between so called pioneering research and the real facts of how it began. This image was from a climb in 1971

193745-JoyRidge71.jpg


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Very interesting read Jerry.

That is a great picture, really captures the scale of what you were doing. Did you climb with Jomoco? he started in 73 and I'm pretty sure he was in your area, he invented the leather cambium saver dont you know!

Didnt National Geographic do the BIG TREE thing about 12 years ago, I seem to remember seeing a pic of a guy traversing via two TIPs right in between two giant Douglas Firs?

Anyone got that pic?
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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It seems to me that the elite scientists and doctors forget that it was the grunts that originally showed them how to climb trees the modern ways.

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Many canopy researchers have odd ways of climbing that are more like rock climbing (at best) and could use some serious improvements with input from "modern" arborist climbers. Many of the academics are operating in "silos" and evolve their own sometimes weird techniques, they're in competition with each other for grant money and recognition etc., it is not a unified group.
-moss
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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Hey Jer, you are absolutely right. I would much rather read about your's and other tree workers adventures than a bunch of scientists, but like you said NG is a good mag.

I'm glad that you wrote so much about your climbs from years ago. Don't stop writing! We all enjoy it.

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I
would love to read some of your climbing advetures. where can I pick some of your material
smile.gif
?
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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. Many of the academics are operating in "silos" and evolve their own sometimes weird techniques, they're in competition with each other for grant money and recognition etc., it is not a unified group.
-moss

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Think thats a bit of an overstatement moss, I've heard guys like Steve Sillet speak on his research and he is very passionate about the trees. Although they do use different language from us, like for new branches that appear after storm damage they call them - 're-iterations'. These 're-iterations' can eventually turn into new stems which compete with each other for dominance.

Have you heard about the mini-shrimps and salamanders that live in the cavity pools over 250ft up in the giant Redwoods? Neither had I until Steve Sillet told us.
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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Think thats a bit of an overstatement moss, I've heard guys like Steve Sillet speak on his research and he is very passionate about the trees. Although they do use different language from us, like for new branches that appear after storm damage they call them - 're-iterations'. These 're-iterations' can eventually turn into new stems which compete with each other for dominance.

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Sillett is using modern technique but across the entire canopy research community (not just PNW old-growth, think international) there's plenty of sketchy technique going on. Some people don't know any better because they didn't ask and no one showed them better technique.
-moss
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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Moss ...

You should hook up with Gerry and some others on the next legit redwood climb event.

Maybe you could do a group-climb drawing after you got back.

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Someday soon I hope to get out there. It would be an honor.
-moss
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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think international) there's plenty of sketchy technique going on. Some people don't know any better because they didn't ask and no one showed them better technique.
-moss

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reckon they're doing ok, havent heard many reports of canopy scientists falling out of trees unlike arboriculture.

Many of these people are practically minded outdoorsy types who aint afraid to get there hands dirty like Richard Dreyfus's character in JAWS.

jaws_robert_shaw_roy_scheider_richard_dreyfuss.jpg







smirk.gif
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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I would love to read some of your climbing advetures. where can I pick some of your material
smile.gif
?

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Check his site:

A TREE STORY DOT COM

Look through the site for the "A Tree Story" CD, to order a copy.
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that the elite scientists and doctors forget that it was the grunts that originally showed them how to climb trees the modern ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many canopy researchers have odd ways of climbing that are more like rock climbing (at best) and could use some serious improvements with input from "modern" arborist climbers. Many of the academics are operating in "silos" and evolve their own sometimes weird techniques, they're in competition with each other for grant money and recognition etc., it is not a unified group.
-moss

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Tell them about TreeBuzz.
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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reckon they're doing ok, havent heard many reports of canopy scientists falling out of trees unlike arboriculture.

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They're doing fine, I was trying to make the point that while canopy scientists who use current tree climbing technique owe it to people like Gerry and other tree workers who got them started on a better way, there's many that haven't quite seen the light. For instance, how many researchers do you think climb trees in rock harnesses? Quite a few. that's not unsafe but it's an example of ignorance of some basic smart tree climbing concepts. Also reflects funding situations for graduate programs, they tend to go with what will get the job done at minimal cost. Again, I'm not talking about Steve Sillett and Marie Antoine, I'm talking about the entire canopy research community. For instance check out these videos, "interesting" blend of climbing disciplines:
Cornell Tree Climbing

Ok I'll quit while I'm (maybe) ahead, I'm looking forward to seeing the National Geo articles.
-moss

edit, thanks Mario, I think it's fixed
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

Moss, do you think that Steve Sillett and his small group could share their climbing techniques with their own peers like we do in tree work, or are they so competative that they don't want to give anything away? I'm just curious.

I appreciate your point of view, seeing as you've climbed with these people before.

You guys are really going to like the NG issue. Believe me!

Ask Steve Sillett where he got the custom helmet that he's wearing in one of the photos.
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

Did you notice in the "Anchoring in the Tree" segment the type of carabiners they were using....screw gate? Aren't they supposed to be double auto locking?
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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Moss, do you think that Steve Sillett and his small group could share their climbing techniques with their own peers like we do in tree work, or are they so competative that they don't want to give anything away? I'm just curious.

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I've never met or climbed with Sillett. My understanding is that Steve and Marie teach their graduate students what they know about climbing. Otherwise I can't imagine he would have the time or desire to teach students not in his program how to climb. The canopy scientists meet regularly at conferences etc. (just like arborists) the exchange of climbing technique depends on who's asking and who's offering advice, just like arborists. There are agreements, rivalries, differences of opinion etc. just like any community of people doing similar things. I can't speak for Steve obviously, he may well have taught researchers outside his program how to climb, it doesn't seem practical though from a time or funding point of view.
-moss
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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Did you notice in the "Anchoring in the Tree" segment the type of carabiners they were using....screw gate? Aren't they supposed to be double auto locking?

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That's what I'm talking about. There is no ANSI for research climbers. You can see there are many different ideas out there about tree climbing technique.
-moss
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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Hey did anyone come across this...kind of interesting

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/video/player#/?titleID=nichols-redwoods-gatefold&catID=1

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Very cool, looks like Jim Spickler (arborist/research climber) in the orange Elios helmet. The tree looks like Illuvatar, featured in the Wild Trees. Not the first photographer to do a vertical panorama of a large redwood, James Balog did it only he was on rope:
James Balog redwood photo

-moss
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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[ QUOTE ]
Hey did anyone come across this...kind of interesting

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/video/player#/?titleID=nichols-redwoods-gatefold&catID=1

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Very cool, looks like Jim Spickler (arborist/research climber) in the orange Elios helmet. The tree looks like Illuvatar, featured in the Wild Trees. Not the first photographer to do a vertical panorama of a large redwood, James Balog did it only he was on rope:
James Balog redwood photo

-moss

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The new Nat Geo redwood photograph is in a separate class from Balog's panorama. Nat Geo is putting together one that is "seamless", whereas Balog's had sort of a composite look to it.

This may be the Nat Geo fold-out. Bigger versions are supposed to be available according to the grapevine.

The intro to that video link mentions the seamless part.
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

The Redwood portrait is made up of 84 shots. It took three weeks of predawn attempts, but finally, in one morning, they captured the 84 images that make the foldout poster in the issue.

After the photo shoot Ken Geiger spent more than 120 hours digitally stitching them together to create the composite.

The poster in available in various sizes, framed and unframed. These are professional-quality prints. Other prints from the Oct. Redwood issue are also available.

Visit
www.printsNGS.com
 
Re: National Geographic\'s Redwood Trees Issues

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The new Nat Geo redwood photograph is in a separate class from Balog's panorama.

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With computer controlled remote cameras mounted on a state-of-the-art motorized vertical rigging system, I don't doubt it. Just wanted to give Balog a shout-out for his pioneering efforts.

I was a wee bit irritated when the National Geo photog said he was the first to do a vertical pano of an old-growth redwood.

Maybe Gerry can relate to that.
-moss
 

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