My Sunday Afternoon

Just last week I was talking to Pete Grisewood about homeowners and their ubiquitous angled back cuts. Where did this 45 degree angle thing originate?



Good Job on the save, BB.


SZ
 
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Just last week I was talking to Pete Grisewood about homeowners and their ubiquitous angled back cuts. Where did this 45 degree angle thing originate?



Good Job on the save, BB.


SZ

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I just rode the crane and made a cut, Dan is the one with the magic touch running the crane.
 
Did he have any concern for standing on a 30' ladder and making a big cut like that? He might be lucky his saw got pinched.
 
leave it up to a cop
laugh.gif
shoulda told him to stick w/ his profession and we will do ours lol. Nice work.. good thing there wasnt much wind!!
 
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leave it up to a cop
laugh.gif
shoulda told him to stick w/ his profession and we will do ours lol. Nice work.. good thing there wasnt much wind!!

[/ QUOTE ] I do both cop by night and tree guy by day I have been doing both for years. I'm one cop who can cut trees and hang with the best of them. Trees are my first love but need bennies and retirement for later years.
 
That is really a scary scenario. Like the guys said, he's lucky the saw got pinched. Nice save.

It must cost a fortune to get you guys out on a Sunday afternoon, at least I hope it does.

So you tie into the metal ring, and the ring is in the hook? Is that osha kosure? Couldn't the ring theoretically come out of the hook??
 
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That is really a scary scenario. Like the guys said, he's lucky the saw got pinched. Nice save.

It must cost a fortune to get you guys out on a Sunday afternoon, at least I hope it does.

So you tie into the metal ring, and the ring is in the hook? Is that osha kosure? Couldn't the ring theoretically come out of the hook??

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OSHA doesn't have a standard for us, the Z is a SUGGESTION. The ring is BEHIND the slings(s), and the gate is locked shut with a cotter pin. NO chance of the gate coming open. NO CRANE MANUFACTURER IN THE WORLD WILL ALLOW YOU TO TIE ANYTHING ONTO THE LOAD LINE!!!!! Thats not how a cranes cable is designed to work. It is designed around the wedge, becket, and ball. There is to be NO weight on the load line above the ball. Ask ANY manufacturer!

The Z needs a major update, and soon! It seems as though it is only one or two mens OPINIONS, not facts. The committee should sit down with Liebherr, Manitowic, and other MAJOR manufacturers and see what they say about these different ways of doing things.........
 
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Just last week I was talking to Pete Grisewood about homeowners and their ubiquitous angled back cuts. Where did this 45 degree angle thing originate?



Good Job on the save, BB.


SZ

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I agree on the nice save BB. Way back in the eighties when you youngin's was in diapers Bob Villa(yes the Craftsman tool guy) had a TV show on home improvement(LOL of all things) and they showed about making the 45 degree backcut which "WOULD NOT" allow the tree to go over backwards...which is obviously what saved this guy(LOL)...Want to see some scary stuff watch some of those old "This Old House" shows where they do tree removal!!
Now that I think about it BB I believe they started the show out in Boston...Over the years I have had many homeowners tell me I made my back cuts wrong because BOB VILLA says they should be at a 45 degree angle!!
 
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That is really a scary scenario. Like the guys said, he's lucky the saw got pinched. Nice save.

It must cost a fortune to get you guys out on a Sunday afternoon, at least I hope it does.

So you tie into the metal ring, and the ring is in the hook? Is that osha kosure? Couldn't the ring theoretically come out of the hook??

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OSHA doesn't have a standard for us, the Z is a SUGGESTION.

The Z needs a major update, and soon! It seems as though it is only one or two mens OPINIONS, not facts.

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I edited this for a point.
1.) If its a suggestion then we're good with 1 handed chainsaw cuts
grin.gif
.
2.) According to this http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=134093&an=0&page=0#134093
the Z is only good for wiping our arse anyways...
 
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That is really a scary scenario. Like the guys said, he's lucky the saw got pinched. Nice save.

It must cost a fortune to get you guys out on a Sunday afternoon, at least I hope it does.

So you tie into the metal ring, and the ring is in the hook? Is that osha kosure? Couldn't the ring theoretically come out of the hook??

[/ QUOTE ]

OSHA doesn't have a standard for us, the Z is a SUGGESTION.

The Z needs a major update, and soon! It seems as though it is only one or two mens OPINIONS, not facts.

[/ QUOTE ]
I edited this for a point.
1.) If its a suggestion then we're good with 1 handed chainsaw cuts
grin.gif
.
2.) According to this http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=134093&an=0&page=0#134093
the Z is only good for wiping our arse anyways...

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I one hand the saw all the time, and see nothing wrong with it.......when used properly! I think we should be like Europe and have certifications for different aspects of work. I think we should go somewhere and have a test, then at the end of the test we get an ID that says we can one hand a saw!

And yes the ANSI is ALL recommendations, thats all! if you break the ANSI, theres NO recourse. Now OSHA on the other hand has SHALL and SHOULD. Don't break the SHALL!
 
But....osha looks to ansi for industry standards an has used them as a reference in the past. What type of test should be given and what skills required to safely 1 hand a chainsaw??
 
I think we should have a group of Arborists who climb make the testing standards, and then vote on them or put them out to pasture and get feedback. The we can have a test site, and a climbing/bucket test to prove we know how and when to one hand, and that we are always in a good position to do so. The reason a lot of guys get hurt one handing is because they are careless and use the saw when they are already in a poor position..........but this will never happen so we are talking if's and maybes.

The crane standard has gotten out of control with the whole industry, ANSI included, listening to only a few voices and clearly NOT speaking to crane manufacturers themselves on the issue.

I just hope this OSHA transition goes smoothly and we haven't already proved ourselves fools with some of the ANSI language. If OSHA thinks the language in the ANSI is unprofessional they will make their own rules and not care what we have to say on the issue.
 
Actually, a violation of the ANSI Z133.1 standard is considered a violation of the OSHA General Duty Clause 5(a)(1). As such, it is considered a Serious violation and results in a minimum fine of $5000.00 for each offense.

The following is from an OSHA interpretation letter:

"As you know, in instances where OSHA standards do not specifically address a particular activity or hazard, ANSI standards can be used by OSHA as a basis for a citation under 5(a)(1) of the Act."

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=21040

Also, CAL-OSHA requires that "The tree worker’s saddle shall also be secured to an independent line attached above the crane hook." (they do require that the worker is also tied into the hook as well, which went against the input from many in the tree care profession).
 
The word CAN is not SHALL in OSHA language. So thats a maybe.

And the Cal OSHA is a STATE level group. Seems their above the ball practice is a back-up tie-in point.

The safest most secure spot is with a masterlink through a LOCKED gate. Ask the manufacturers how they feel about having weight, sometimes more than the ball weighs!, above their becket and ball?
 
I kind of agree with ya, Bull. One of my crane operator's setup is designed in such a way that if you can't tie in above the ball, due to the rotations that loads put on that area. He also uses a large ring on the hook.

Though a climber and his gear, attached above the ball, doubtfully would weigh as much as the ball and hook.
 
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I kind of agree with ya, Bull. One of my crane operator's setup is designed in such a way that if you can't tie in above the ball, due to the rotations that loads put on that area. He also uses a large ring on the hook.

Though a climber and his gear, attached above the ball, doubtfully would weigh as much as the ball and hook.

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We have a 60 ton all terrain crane. Our ball weighs 285lbs. I am one of the "normal sized" climbers here, weight wise.....200lbs. Now take me naked at 200lbs, add clothes, and boots, now I am at 220. Add a saddle with all the fix'ns, at 230lbs, add a saw with fuel and 20-24" bar, now were at say 250lbs. How about a shackle, friction saver and climbing line? 270lbs easily! So you put a climber who weighs more than me and you're in the trouble zone. Adds up quick doesn't it?

We should try to get some manufacturers involved to see what we do and why. Maybe they could help us with OSHA and ANSI.
 
There is one crane manufacturer who is involved with the ASC Z133 committee. I had tried to get them to bring a crane to the workshop in Augusta back in May. They did not bring a crane because they did not want to be seen by OSHA promoting something that was not approved.
 
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