My klemheist, VT, Distel, Schwabisch, Knut, you name it, hitch keeps freezing up

P

Parrot

Location
Wallingford
So I’ve seen about a dozen videos showing people descending using just 2 fingers using one of the aforementioned slip and grip hitches. However, every time I use them, I can get about 4 feet (move, stop, move, stop, move, stop…) before the prusik gets so tight that I can’t release it no matter how hard I pull it. Do anyone have any suggestion about what I am doing wrong?


I usually use a Sterling 7mm static accessory rope (3 different ones) as my main/belay line and Sterling 5mm cord to tie my prusik. I have also tried a Sterling 6mm cord for the prusik and a 7mm rope from REI as my main rope, in various combinations and the all lock up after a few stops. I weight about 158 lbs.


Thanks

Parrot
 
Yeh,

I am only going up 20' feet or so, 50' max (the rope is only a 60' long). The way everything is set up, my max fall distance is only about 3' so the 2800 lbs mbs is more than enough for my needs.

On the other hand I could have 2 mile plus, through the woods, carry, to get on site (carrying 60 lbs of other gear) so size and weight are a factor.

I might try a thicker rope if people are sure that these hitches don't work well on smaller sized rope.

Parrot
 
I'm sure somehow you could make it work but I've never read anybody on here climbing with that size rope and hitch combo. Are you climbing doubled or single line?
 
Jem4417 said:
Are you climbing doubled or single line?
Click to expand...

Neither actually. I climb using 2, short (5'), rope/rung ladders, which I attach to the tree trunk, leap frogging them, on the way up. The rope is my safety / return rope.

Parrot

I tried the 7mm on 7mm using the REI rope which was much stiffer than the Sterling rope. It really didn't hold very well. I think I'll try 7 & 7 using the Sterling tonight.

P
 
You're way outside best practices for tree climbing on rope. You can get Jeff Jepson's Tree Climber's Companion cheap online. It will help you understand the basis for modern tree climbing technique and give you a much better chance to configure a system that works well using proven materials and methods well understood by climbers on this forum.
-AJ
 
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It seems to me that 20' to 50' of height will break your neck as quick as anything higher will, but it is your neck.

There are a lot of 10mm and 11mm ropes out there that weigh less than 6 pounds per 100 feet of line. You can use a prussik cord designed to handle the heat of your descents, that way, and only be carrying 3 pounds of rope. You'll still need added friction to allow the hitch to operate correctly. Munter hitch or a mechanical like the Rope Wrench or HitchHiker.

Escalator, Velocity, Fly, Tendril, 10mm HTP and others would all be lightweight choices that will be considerably safer than using accessory cord.
 
I know the diameter difference between the roles is important. 8 mm VT on 11mm rope works well for my fat azz. Also, how many wraps/braids are you putting in your VT/Schwabisch? Try fewer wraps
 
Are you using etriers attached to the tree?

How are you attaching them to the tree?

It sounds like you're in a lead climbing mode rather than tree climbing mode.

There is cross-over between the two but there are also some proven techniques that work in one but not so well in the other.
 
If you're just using the rope for descending - you could use figure-8 or other simple descender... if you have one kicking about, you could put it in above your hitch with a short tether - poor mans wrench. Anything that will take some of the load off the hitch to stop it binding.

You could try also doubling up the sterling.
 
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It's definitely a static rope and not a more dynamic rock climbing rope? Do you have a link to the rope you are using, either on the Sterling or REI website?
 
Well, let's see;


1) The 7 & 7 worked pretty well; 3 short (5') descents in my house and it never jammed. (I did have 1, about 2' free fall until it grabbed once). I am on my way to the store to buy some new rope (which I hope will be a little more supple. (I had descended a few times on the rope I had use for the test and it had stiffen from having the sheath pulled down.)


2) "Try using a munter hitch in conjunction with the friction hitch"

This works well with the combination of ropes that I am using. I have been use a munter on my way down for quite some time now. However to keep my friction hitch (a French prusik now but had been using a standard prusik before) from locking up, I have been wrapping the rope around the long side of the carabiner for added friction. The wraps make it a pain to remove slack. It is okay for the return trip since I only have to remove the slack once. However to use it as part of my safety line on the way up, well I figured it was going to be more time consuming (and space consuming) that I wanted . Therefore I was trying out these new fangled hitches.


3) "You're way outside best practices for tree climbing on rope."

Yeah, I know I am "a. b. normal" (a reference to Young "Frankenstein"), but my needs are not that of the average guy that goes up a tree. (If you really want to know, I will explain it to you but I will it assure you that it is "well thought out and insightful" (a reference to the radio show (W'had do ya know?") and will take some time so don't ask unless you really want to know!)


4) "There are a lot of 10mm and 11mm ropes out there that weigh less than 6 pounds per 100 feet of line"

Point taken. But before I ran out and bought a bunch of rope (and probably some prusiks) I wanted to make sure it was the rope sizes that was the problem and not the way I was tying or using the hitches. I didn't want find out the rope was find, my technique was flawed and now had the same problem with and a bunch of rope I was no further use for.


5) "You can get Jeff Jepson's Tree Climber's Companion cheap online."

Thanks. I will look for it. However I have been wrestling with my little tree climbing problem for a few years. I have done a bunch of research. And as I said before, my needs are abnormal so I cobbling together thing that work from several different sources.


6) "Are you using etriers attached to the tree?"

Basically. Etriers made from webbing look like they would be a bit painful on your feet if stood in the for a while (trail running class of hiking shoes, not using work boots). I use wood for the place you would place your feet and the rest is made from cord.


7) "How are you attaching them to the tree?"

Method A: 2 x (1" webbing, 1 oval carabiner, and a simple (not sure the name) with backup) worked fine but its slow

Method B: 1 x (7mm cord, 1 oval carabiner, 4 mm cord, 2 standard prusik ) still under development but really fast


8) "It sounds like you're in a lead climbing mode rather than tree climbing mode."

Yep, but:
a) I am climbing a tree.
b) the anchoring methods are different
c) I am "cleaning" as I go


9) "It seems to me that 20' to 50' of height will break your neck as quick as anything higher will, but it is your neck."

Yep that is why I have the main anchor and at least 1 and sometimes 2 safeties (and a flip line). I mentioned the height only because I was saying I don't need to get up to the canopy and therefore I didn't want to carry the 200' of 10mm rope needed for the standard DRT or SRTs.


10) "Try fewer wraps"

Excellent point! I forgot to try that. Thank you very much for your suggestion!


11) "You could try also doubling up the sterling."

Not sure what you mean. Please go on.


12) "It's definitely a static rope and not a more dynamic rock climbing rope?"

Oh yeh it a static. (I have had access to some expert class, rock climbers in the past. They all said that static is what I want (not falling far, a dynamic have to much stretch for the "close in" work that I am doing"). They also looked at the rope and confirmed that I have static ropes.


Are you guys using dynamic ropes?



If I have access to rock climbers why didn't ask my climbing friends this question?

Funny thing, most rock climbers don't know that much about these types of prusiks. Most gym climbers can only tie one knot (the figure 8). If you can find a climber that actually gets outside, they may know the munter and probably know the French prusik (autoblocking) but not much else. Sure there are bunches that probably that use this stuff, I just don't know many and they wouldn't use them on a daily basis. You guys know more.

13) " Do you have a link to the rope you are using, either on the Sterling or REI website?"
Here is the link to sterling 7mm:
http://www.sterlingrope.com/c/climbing_accessory-prusik-cord_7mm-accessory-cord?action_type=switch_product&selected_cat_keys=1114670.1114254.1006311.0.0&selected_product=52725a6b6b50b78521f4db3f153e351c&redirected_post=1

Here is the link to sterling 5mm:
http://www.sterlingrope.com/c/climb...c343215bf91c&ckey=1114670.1114254.1006314.0.0



Parrot
 
Parrot said:
Well, let's see;


3) "You're way outside best practices for tree climbing on rope."

Yeah, I know I am "a. b. normal" (a reference to Young "Frankenstein"), but my needs are not that of the average guy that goes up a tree. (If you really want to know, I will explain it to you but I will it assure you that it is "well thought out and insightful" (a reference to the radio show (W'had do ya know?") and will take some time so don't ask unless you really want to know!)




Parrot
Click to expand...

You've definitely piqued my interest.... I love learning the different ways and reasons folks climb into trees, especially as a means to earn income.
 
One reason I mention you're outside best practices for tree climbing is there's a language/terminology barrier here, it's a lot of work to go back and forth commenting on what you're doing when basic technique and terms are unknown on your side. For example you haven't answered the question whether you're climbing on single rope or a doubled rope, knowing the difference will really help your climbing and will definitely answer your original question about why your hitch is binding up.

No offense intended but rope and harness tree climbing is very developed and has well established methodologies. If you become familiarized with it you'll have more knowledge tools to solve your climbing problems. Safety is another issue, leaving that one alone.

Just a heads up, the most commonly used rope lengths for tree climbing are 120' and 150'. 200' is used primarily by single rope climbers but is less used than the other two lengths.
-AJ
 
Just looked at the specs for the cordage you've been using, the 7mm is only recommended by Sterling as prusik cord, the 5mm definitely not for life support use on rope. When you get your hands on the Tree Climber's Companion you'll see that the Prusik is not a good choice for tree climbing. The very nature of a Prusik hitch is that it progressively binds tight, it was never intended as a sliding (descending) hitch. There a specific types of cordage that work very well for sliding hitches, go to TreeStuff.com and look at the hitch cord offerings to get oriented. You can buy arborist rope by the foot to get whatever length you want. The 11mm arb ropes offer tremendous versatility, they are specifically designed to have the characteristics required for tree climbing techniques. Ok that's it for tree lessons for today ;-)
-AJ
 
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Yes, that Sterling looks like accessory cord. Despite being considered "static" and its breaking strength being adequate in your opinion, its construction and cover probably aren't the best for ascending and descending.
 
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Parrot said:
...my needs are not that of the average guy that goes up a tree. (If you really want to know, I will explain it to you but I will it assure you that it is "well thought out and insightful" (a reference to the radio show (W'had do ya know?") and will take some time so don't ask unless you really want to know!)
Click to expand...

If you get to know tree climbers you will find out there is not an "average guy" or gal among us, it is an exceptional group of exceptional people. There are a huge variety of reasons why and where people climb. Every tree, every species, every purpose to climb provides different challenges and adjustments for a climber to reckon with. Yeah when you have the time explain what your climbing goals are please do so. Check out the Rec Climbing forum on TreeBuzz too.
-AJ
 
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