Mistletoe
- Thread starter TrEECoWboY
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guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
For us mistletoe in our nation and state parks is not a causal factor and I don't think any of my attachments present it as such but thats ok
[/ QUOTE ]it's right there in the chart, but I agree we do need to consider the ecosystem.[ QUOTE ]
the real answer lies in the soil not in the canopy.
[/ QUOTE ]right, and the air and water that change the soil, but since we cannot do much about them, rehabilitating the rhizosphere where the bottom half of the tree is has to be part of our job.
yeah jamin best time to schedule parasite eradication work is early December, to take the trimmings to market!
For us mistletoe in our nation and state parks is not a causal factor and I don't think any of my attachments present it as such but thats ok
[/ QUOTE ]it's right there in the chart, but I agree we do need to consider the ecosystem.[ QUOTE ]
the real answer lies in the soil not in the canopy.
[/ QUOTE ]right, and the air and water that change the soil, but since we cannot do much about them, rehabilitating the rhizosphere where the bottom half of the tree is has to be part of our job.
yeah jamin best time to schedule parasite eradication work is early December, to take the trimmings to market!
- Location
- Atlanta, GA
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Ecologist with a wider field of view take into consideration many other factors and make impact assessments. The fact that mistletoe is getting more prevalent means something.
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good point.
what are-were the natural predators to mistletoe.
maybe we are missing a link here, in the urban forests.
is the same problem prevalent in wilderness settings.
if so, to what degree.
Ecologist with a wider field of view take into consideration many other factors and make impact assessments. The fact that mistletoe is getting more prevalent means something.
[/ QUOTE ]
good point.
what are-were the natural predators to mistletoe.
maybe we are missing a link here, in the urban forests.
is the same problem prevalent in wilderness settings.
if so, to what degree.
- Location
- Atlanta, GA
It's really out of hand in Yosemite, choking every roadside oak, but in articles written for the isa western chapter, California state foresters act like we are helpless against it. Like they never heard of pruning etc. 'quote´¨
Is it just the road side oaks that are being choked, or are the deep woods oaks being choked also.......
Is it just the road side oaks that are being choked, or are the deep woods oaks being choked also.......
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
Is it just the road side oaks that are being choked, or are the deep woods oaks being choked also.......
[/ QUOTE ]I did not see it nearly as bad in the oaks along the trails. I'm sure more birds perch on the ones along the roads.
neverheard of a natural contol for mistletoe.
Is it just the road side oaks that are being choked, or are the deep woods oaks being choked also.......
[/ QUOTE ]I did not see it nearly as bad in the oaks along the trails. I'm sure more birds perch on the ones along the roads.
neverheard of a natural contol for mistletoe.
TheTreeSpyder
Branched out member
- Location
- Florida>>> USA
In the urban setting; i'm totally against mistletoe. i wouldn't advise someone keep it for habitat; anymore than i'd top a tree to kill it; leave the junk on the ground and advise not to mow the grass for habitat!! i've also seen it predictably wipe out trees for 3+ blocks over a course of years. It is not just a single tree that it affects if you leave it, but your neighbor's too.
The birds and squirrels spread it by eating; but being messy eaters spread it from their mouth end and other end later for a pretty super efficiency at this task of spreading it.
Down here; we have another problem with it in our droughts. When a tree is in drought; it will wisely close it's leaf stomata to reduce transpiration/ to conserve water. But, the greedy demon mistletoe keeps it's stomata open, drinks and stays bright green as the rest of the tree suffers.
When someone pays for tree advice; i think of that as for the health of the tree; not sacrifice. Though there is some cancer research involving mistletoe; the berries can be fatal to children, elderly and pets. So, mistletoe that is sold shouldn't have any real/only plastic berries on it.
Maybe in upside down land it fits the bill; but not around'ere! There was even a claim by the Forestry Service here years back that mistletoe ruined more lumber than any other factor-including irresponsibly/ man-made fires.
The birds and squirrels spread it by eating; but being messy eaters spread it from their mouth end and other end later for a pretty super efficiency at this task of spreading it.
Down here; we have another problem with it in our droughts. When a tree is in drought; it will wisely close it's leaf stomata to reduce transpiration/ to conserve water. But, the greedy demon mistletoe keeps it's stomata open, drinks and stays bright green as the rest of the tree suffers.
When someone pays for tree advice; i think of that as for the health of the tree; not sacrifice. Though there is some cancer research involving mistletoe; the berries can be fatal to children, elderly and pets. So, mistletoe that is sold shouldn't have any real/only plastic berries on it.
Maybe in upside down land it fits the bill; but not around'ere! There was even a claim by the Forestry Service here years back that mistletoe ruined more lumber than any other factor-including irresponsibly/ man-made fires.
*When a tree is in drought; it will wisely close it's leaf stomata to reduce transpiration/ to conserve water. But, the greedy demon mistletoe keeps it's stomata open, drinks and stays bright green as the rest of the tree suffers.*
im in Florida as well
ive seen mistletoe looking bright green and healthy as could be on scrubby little trees that had barely any green on them.. always wondered what was going on there, good explanation.
whenever we do a trim or removal, we strip any mistletoe we find in other trees on the customers property as a courtesy
im in Florida as well
ive seen mistletoe looking bright green and healthy as could be on scrubby little trees that had barely any green on them.. always wondered what was going on there, good explanation.
whenever we do a trim or removal, we strip any mistletoe we find in other trees on the customers property as a courtesy
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
In "upside down land" mistletoe doesn't fit any bill, have no idea what your going on about?
The point being made by my posts was that for Oz mistletoe is being seen as an indicator of floral community decline (in the case of E fasciculosa communities in the ranges national park in South Australia) not as the primary cause of that decline.
Since I can't post the pdfs (too big) and others seem to read things that are not there I'll copy out the conclusions;
" It is probable, therefore, that high mistletoe infestations are more likely to be symptomatic of the poor tree condition rather than causal."
"the large scale dieback of pink gums may have led to higher abundances of mistletoe on pink gums than on other eucalypt types"
"The present study has given a comprehensive description of mistletoe abundance and the drivers of mistletoe prevalence in the fragmented and degraded eucalyptus woodlands"
It may be that you have very different conditions in your forests, and undoubtably the driving force behind commercial forestry is the production of merchantable timber to which mistletoe is an unacceptable negative factor.
But the original question was......Seems like this stuff shows up in stressed trees moreso than it "stresses" trees.
Any thoughts on this?
and it was to this that I was addressing my comments.
The point being made by my posts was that for Oz mistletoe is being seen as an indicator of floral community decline (in the case of E fasciculosa communities in the ranges national park in South Australia) not as the primary cause of that decline.
Since I can't post the pdfs (too big) and others seem to read things that are not there I'll copy out the conclusions;
" It is probable, therefore, that high mistletoe infestations are more likely to be symptomatic of the poor tree condition rather than causal."
"the large scale dieback of pink gums may have led to higher abundances of mistletoe on pink gums than on other eucalypt types"
"The present study has given a comprehensive description of mistletoe abundance and the drivers of mistletoe prevalence in the fragmented and degraded eucalyptus woodlands"
It may be that you have very different conditions in your forests, and undoubtably the driving force behind commercial forestry is the production of merchantable timber to which mistletoe is an unacceptable negative factor.
But the original question was......Seems like this stuff shows up in stressed trees moreso than it "stresses" trees.
Any thoughts on this?
and it was to this that I was addressing my comments.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
Seems like this stuff shows up in stressed trees moreso than it "stresses" trees.
Any thoughts on this?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is true, but the management implications are limited. We cannot eliminate all the other causes but we can eliminate the mistletoe.
I agree we should be aware of the wider and philosophical issues but that should not get in the way of taking practical action.
Seems like this stuff shows up in stressed trees moreso than it "stresses" trees.
Any thoughts on this?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is true, but the management implications are limited. We cannot eliminate all the other causes but we can eliminate the mistletoe.
I agree we should be aware of the wider and philosophical issues but that should not get in the way of taking practical action.
TheTreeSpyder
Branched out member
- Location
- Florida>>> USA
i'm sorry; i thought the 'miss-understood' doc/plea was of Aussie decent; and it was just re-versed of my view.
In my view of un-altered Nature; the leaf either feeds the tree or falls to the ground and feeds the tree. There is not loss only a trade; forgoing one habitat or life for another from the finite resources. Like the demon in the Denzel Washington movie "Fallen" (appropriately named for my usual purposes). Only we seek to slice and dice the cycle apart; translocating major resources far enough away to break the local cycle. So, about anything can be justified on account of something else in the lesser impacting non-man sense. But this Lorax; speaks for the trees...
Otis; i think the mistletoe robs the host branch continuously by interrupting water travel to stomata; and thereby it's return trip too. But in drought; my imagery is that it robs the whole tree's resources. And that's all i claim; an imagery model to be more familiar by, perhaps peer below the bark line; as all ways. Not always perfect models; but the best i know for understanding, viewing and making decisions.
Well, back to my own upside down land. Upside down being a whimsical, non-aggressive matter of perception; rather than reality. i'm such a lil'troublemaker; i should ban mys-elf to my own wierld; maybe even come up with some ideas of my own.
In my view of un-altered Nature; the leaf either feeds the tree or falls to the ground and feeds the tree. There is not loss only a trade; forgoing one habitat or life for another from the finite resources. Like the demon in the Denzel Washington movie "Fallen" (appropriately named for my usual purposes). Only we seek to slice and dice the cycle apart; translocating major resources far enough away to break the local cycle. So, about anything can be justified on account of something else in the lesser impacting non-man sense. But this Lorax; speaks for the trees...
Otis; i think the mistletoe robs the host branch continuously by interrupting water travel to stomata; and thereby it's return trip too. But in drought; my imagery is that it robs the whole tree's resources. And that's all i claim; an imagery model to be more familiar by, perhaps peer below the bark line; as all ways. Not always perfect models; but the best i know for understanding, viewing and making decisions.
Well, back to my own upside down land. Upside down being a whimsical, non-aggressive matter of perception; rather than reality. i'm such a lil'troublemaker; i should ban mys-elf to my own wierld; maybe even come up with some ideas of my own.
[ QUOTE ]
Otis; i think the mistletoe robs the host branch continuously by interrupting water travel to stomata; and thereby it's return trip too. But in drought; my imagery is that it robs the whole tree's resources.
[/ QUOTE ]
the observations ive made support your views..
Otis; i think the mistletoe robs the host branch continuously by interrupting water travel to stomata; and thereby it's return trip too. But in drought; my imagery is that it robs the whole tree's resources.
[/ QUOTE ]
the observations ive made support your views..
- Location
- Titirangi, Auckland, NZ
[ QUOTE ]
We cannot eliminate all the other causes but we can eliminate the mistletoe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well you can certainly try to eliminate the mistletoe I quess it'll keep you busy. If we don't address the other underlying causes of decline that lead to the desired tree species, or general tree community being overwhelmed by mistletoe thats seems somewhat illogical to me.
Surely its not an either or situation?
Without removal declining trees will succumb to the additional strain from the parasitic plant, equally the fungal pathogen or insect pest.
Just so we all clear I'm not being philosophical, nor am I or the clients I advise playing academic games about definitions. Very large forest communities under extreme environmental stress in the driest continent on earth (outside of Antartica) demand management approaches that prioritise scarce resources, both human resources and tree resources. Physical removal is and always has been an element of that management, but if you don't recognise what is actually going on in fragmented, edge exposed vegetation communities to predispose these trees to heightened vulnerability to pests like mistletoe your are on a hiding to nothing.
I'm glad you speak for the trees Kenny, believe it or not you're not alone, some of us actually believe thats what we are doing too.
Sean Freeman.
We cannot eliminate all the other causes but we can eliminate the mistletoe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well you can certainly try to eliminate the mistletoe I quess it'll keep you busy. If we don't address the other underlying causes of decline that lead to the desired tree species, or general tree community being overwhelmed by mistletoe thats seems somewhat illogical to me.
Surely its not an either or situation?
Without removal declining trees will succumb to the additional strain from the parasitic plant, equally the fungal pathogen or insect pest.
Just so we all clear I'm not being philosophical, nor am I or the clients I advise playing academic games about definitions. Very large forest communities under extreme environmental stress in the driest continent on earth (outside of Antartica) demand management approaches that prioritise scarce resources, both human resources and tree resources. Physical removal is and always has been an element of that management, but if you don't recognise what is actually going on in fragmented, edge exposed vegetation communities to predispose these trees to heightened vulnerability to pests like mistletoe your are on a hiding to nothing.
I'm glad you speak for the trees Kenny, believe it or not you're not alone, some of us actually believe thats what we are doing too.
Sean Freeman.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Surely its not an either or situation?
[/ QUOTE ]Positively not, I agree. Hard to relate to living in perpetual drought. If your declining trees cannot get water then maybe they need to be replaced with mesquite or cactus. If people there like here waste gallons of water every time they have to tinkle then it is a more societal than arboricultural issue.
But too often folks look at decline and think "harvest" when they indeed have many other real options.
[ QUOTE ]
Surely its not an either or situation?
[/ QUOTE ]Positively not, I agree. Hard to relate to living in perpetual drought. If your declining trees cannot get water then maybe they need to be replaced with mesquite or cactus. If people there like here waste gallons of water every time they have to tinkle then it is a more societal than arboricultural issue.
But too often folks look at decline and think "harvest" when they indeed have many other real options.
- Location
- Atlanta, GA
I guess the question is will removing the mistletoe help to re-establish vigor all other things being equal and relative.
If not, then there would be an underlying primary causal factor. Tree pick there environments to thrive in. That falls under the "all things being equal and relative". Species have their precise lattitudes and temperate zones.
Therefore, mistletoe on trees in arid vs. humid environments would most likely attack under similar conditions. A healthy or declining tree in both environments would be relative to that environment. The mistletoe would take advantage then of the stress the tree is under, unable to protect itself and less vigorous (in whichever environment it is in).
The oldest living tree (Bristle Cone Pine) is found in the Mojave desert. Temperature and humidity don't factor into success. The tree has filled a niche, and thrives there. When it gets stressed, it declines and is more likely to succumb to an outside parasitic, viral, environmental or mechanical injury.
I would have to go with a scientific study that indicates no causality toward the mistletoe, and question why funding would be used to attempt erradication. Is this for lumber harvesting? Is it that we are down to less than 10% of old growth and attempting to maximize production and quality in the shortest time? Is it a factor that production has created, and then spread into our urban settings? Why would there be such a move to "eradicate mistletoe".
I wonder how much funding is behind this, and more importantly, where it is coming from. Maybe someone can look that one up.
If not, then there would be an underlying primary causal factor. Tree pick there environments to thrive in. That falls under the "all things being equal and relative". Species have their precise lattitudes and temperate zones.
Therefore, mistletoe on trees in arid vs. humid environments would most likely attack under similar conditions. A healthy or declining tree in both environments would be relative to that environment. The mistletoe would take advantage then of the stress the tree is under, unable to protect itself and less vigorous (in whichever environment it is in).
The oldest living tree (Bristle Cone Pine) is found in the Mojave desert. Temperature and humidity don't factor into success. The tree has filled a niche, and thrives there. When it gets stressed, it declines and is more likely to succumb to an outside parasitic, viral, environmental or mechanical injury.
I would have to go with a scientific study that indicates no causality toward the mistletoe, and question why funding would be used to attempt erradication. Is this for lumber harvesting? Is it that we are down to less than 10% of old growth and attempting to maximize production and quality in the shortest time? Is it a factor that production has created, and then spread into our urban settings? Why would there be such a move to "eradicate mistletoe".
I wonder how much funding is behind this, and more importantly, where it is coming from. Maybe someone can look that one up.
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