Man vs. Earth

Some may misinterpret my feelings about science. I love science and have my nose buried in scientific journals all the time. The difference is I use that knowledge to help me understand how things work so that I can make informed decisions. Sometimes just knowing how things work is enough. Sometimes as good as it gets is good enough.
 
Or does Brand suspect that we will continue to demand power, for at least a while, so we better tweak it in the right way, not the wrong way. Interesting, he mentions how we have gone back and forth on the water vs nuclear power generation issue. I thought nothing could be better than the constant power of flowing water. He sells nuclear well. Does that mean he's 'selling' it? Not necessarily. But I'm skeptical. And yes DSMc, he does not talk enough on how ultimately people need to change. I think so often leaders want to be accommodating to existing demands and habits, when we really need something we don't particularly want. To get what the world including us, really needs, we must radically change. How do I change that radically? How do you? How do we? I'm playing with some ideas, as most of us are, but they seem like dreams. So far away. So many barriers. Was Neil Young right? Are we helpless? One of his buddies sang 'we are not helpless'. There's the spirit.


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Redtree said:
.... He sells nuclear well. Does that mean he's 'selling' it? ?..
Click to expand...

He is most definitely selling it along with bioengineering. Our ability to peel back the secrets, hidden in layers and find amazing things, is , well, amazing. Also amazing is our lack of wisdom and consideration in how to utilize these things and there long term effects.

Did you know that the tools for bioengineering have become so easy-to-use that biologists can now tinker with things in their garages.
http://www.technologyreview.com/review/524451/genome-surgery/
 
DSMc said:
Thank you for the kind words, Treetopflyer. There are many gravity filters like the Big Berkey and they use an assortment of different filters. The ones we use are ceramic and last for years and years. There are also filters that will remove not only disease causing pathogens but pesticides as well. The systems can be larger by simply using bigger containers.
We are on the grid but built our house with self-sufficiency in mind. So yes, that is a working hand pump but it is not hooked up to our well. We use it to access our under house rain water cisterns. When we bought our land the wells in this area had no history so we designed a water collection system off our roof. Figured it would give us some wiggle room if the well gave us trouble or even during power outages. Works well and tastes good.
Montana is a big beautiful place with lots of open land because it gets cold and it is really tuff to make a living here, haha.
Click to expand...
Amy chance you might elaborate further on the rain cistern well setup you talked about? Does the water need or go through any conditioning or cleaning before consumption?
 
I have to watch the brand videos yet. I will. I still can't believe what I herd from that racing extinction program. Crazy what's going on. I used to be scared for my kids to have to be in a shit world when they got older. After seeing that program I thimk it may be here much sooner if significant changes aren't made in how we approach life. I just can't believe how it seems to me so few give a shit enough to make serious change .Like its a problem too big to face or too many o are too ignorant to see what were doing to ourselves and our future. It's been really weighing on my mind lately how I live and can make a better way. It's no easy feat to make positive change. maybe through communication and idea sharing a impact can start.
 
Damn. I keep thinking about how quickly this world is changing. And how my understanding of it is quickly changing as well. Again I hesitate to 'like' your post, Treetopflyer, but it's true. It is a really good point, but a reality that i don't like. There is tons to be said about these realities we don't want to become aware of but more so that we don't want to deal with. Sadly we know how to deal with it, we just don't. So many barriers, but to what degree? Can't go over it. Can't go through it? Gotta go around it! There are 'work arounds' for this inconceivably large problem. But this problem is not bigger than earth. DSMc, you have given me perspective. The reality is that we need to stop trying to find ways to live the lives we live. We need to strip down our wants, and find what we really need in our lives. In the end this could even solve the crazies turning into killers issue. People have lost core values in trade for hot commodities. You say f#$@ planet earth, I say planet earth says fu$? You. Sadly, myself and many just talk about it, wake up, and do the same thing. Like opening the fridge every ten minutes, hoping to eventually find a hot pizza in there. The fridge I might add is plugged into a heated house, in a freezing climate. Ha. I'm an idiot. Why not have the fridge against an exterior wall. Why not use w cold cellar. No exterior shutters, no cold cellars. Things are going backwards more than forwards. My neighbour does it too though, so I'm not a bad guy? I'm mislead more than ignorant but both I suppose. I often complain about the way the ball bounces, but I'm the guy who dropped it. Maybe more so, it was always dropped, and I feel like I have no hands to pick it up. But I sure kick it around. The ball is the world. It rolls down hill. Faster and faster, and we pave the road in front of it.
BDSMc brings me back to my youth. I never wanted a car. In fact I started my business on a bicycle with my harness in a backpack. So the bigger question is not 'what fuel efficient car can I get to replace my truck?' Rather, it's 'how can I live my life without a vehicle period. Still, I drive in circles today with my awesome 'fu$& the planet' 6.6 dirty diesel. F$&& ME. This is so depressing. Maybe I should just drive up north until I run out of gas instead of waiting for the planet to run out. Then park it permanently and start my own little little game of survivors. Then wait for the rest of the world to wipe each other out in the fight for resources. Or wait until they catch up with me and burn my shack. But how could I complain. That's what we invasive European species did to the First Nations years ago. Well, gotta get back to deadwooding this sugar maple so it looks better instead of is better. Exclusion is already in place as there is no target with dead limbs. In reality, it will just add to our carbon footprint by trucking and chopping. Maybe I can offset it with these words. As if offsets are a solution. Next time you debate cutting a Norway or Manitoba maple, debate this-'is it worth losing the carbon stored AND potential future carbon stores AND the carbon emitted to complete the process. What is it about? Eliminating or managing the invasives? Don't cut them down. With the same effort you could plant Black walnuts or silver maples or fast natives, possibly under these invasives. Then prune the invasives to direct the natives through to favour the competition.
Hey another offset. I just pissed into the chips. Disgusting uncivilized act. I should go to a bathroom and piss in a 10 litre bowl of perfectly clean water. Wtf.


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Did you guys know more carbon resides in the soil than in the atmosphere and all plant life combined! " there are 2,500 billion tons of carbon in soil, compared with 800 billion tons in the atmosphere and 560 billion tons in plant and animal life"
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/soil_as_carbon_storehouse_new_weapon_in_climate_fight/2744/
This has actually been known for a long time but ignored. I wonder if this is a hot topic of discussion at the climate conference in Paris. Because high intensity, monoculture farming destroys the soil's ability to hold carbon, I am going to guess no.
 
Treetopflyer said:
Amy chance you might elaborate further on the rain cistern well setup you talked about? Does the water need or go through any conditioning or cleaning before consumption?
Click to expand...

It is pretty simple really. We set up 2000 gallons worth of cisterns in our insulated but not heated basement. We used metal roofing when we built because it sheds less debris than composition shingles. The gutters are plumbed to the tanks and have a manually activated redirect so when the tanks are full, the roof water goes to the trees. There is a coarse screen pre-filter to catch the heavy crud before the tanks.
Our house is small and still we get close to 1000 gallons from just one inch of rain. The hand pump is used to fill the Berkey. The filters we use were chosen for the types of contaminants typical to this type of setup.
 
DSMc said:
Did you guys know more carbon resides in the soil than in the atmosphere and all plant life combined! " there are 2,500 billion tons of carbon in soil, compared with 800 billion tons in the atmosphere and 560 billion tons in plant and animal life"
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/soil_as_carbon_storehouse_new_weapon_in_climate_fight/2744/
This has actually been known for a long time but ignored. I wonder if this is a hot topic of discussion at the climate conference in Paris. Because high intensity, monoculture farming destroys the soil's ability to hold carbon, I am going to guess no.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for all the information you've been sharing . It's very meaningful and I appreciate the good reads from this link. Hopeful to know there's folks out there who are at the forefront of facing a huge problem,coming up with ideas that could help save us all.
It needs to be pushed more mainstream, our carbon problem.. How is that accomplished ?. I think most people just don't know how deep of shit were all in already. If they knew it could spark a real change!? Is this a drop in the well? Well received or well wasted. I'm not sure yet?
 
Very good points, Treetopflyer. And DSMc, thanks from me too for sharing your great perspective, your action to actually apply it to your own way of life, and your references. I think a lot of this is not time wasted. But I think we need to follow DSMc in being more self sufficient, more active. I'm guessing he's still in the process? If not tomorrow then the next time you roof your house or the next time you buy a vehicle. Basically every time you buy something, ask yourself, 'do I need this? Is it garbage already? How can I live without it? We can live without it. Where was it made? Shit I forgot , another barrier that the west built up on our own.
Put the manufacturing out the door to the point where many products aren't even made here. So then we send the money out the door. We send the resources. So indirectly we send the power. Or should I say, we've sent the power. All the while leaving carbon footprints behind the trucks and ships that move these thneeds. The global market is a bitch and the winners used our blind neediness, compounded by our cheapness. I've been ignorant too. I just wish it was somehow illegal to have this unbalanced trade. But again there's the producer AND the consumer. The governments made the first mistakes. The producers the next. And we made the third mistake. We bought it, literally.
These ideas are old not new. And I hope and think they can take more effect on mainstream as the reality of global warming, resource limits, and over consumption sets in, to common knowledge. I just fear what this means as the world leaders start to think 'ok we can't send the population to space so we gotta start making some cutbacks'. I don't want world war but isn't it kind of there already. Prettied up by shaking hands at photo opps. But really they turn there backs with their own country or their own countries corporate world or gdp in mind. I hate to be such a bummer.
Go Canada. Go usa. Keep on rocking in the free world. But is the world free to use? Or abuse? We need to think. Is this freedom or is it greedom? I'm greedy. so many things that I'm tied to that I'm not free. Should I be free to fly across the globe? Should I be free to smash a 2000 sq ft house and build one that's 5000? Mine is 1800, floored and heated with wood I cut but still on the grid.
Still dumping sewage, garbage and hurray, recycling. Should I be free to buy a coffee from a cleared rainforest in a disposable cup? Should I be free to drive to Florida and back? By the way that's a big, beautiful seasonal forest you guys have. Kentucky, Ohio. Keep it beautiful. It's more than a resource. See the oak at marker 155-154 on i75 in Ohio. 100 yards off to the east. Probably see it on google maps. Is that a state champ? I hope so. Looks great at 80 miles an hour. Great car I drive. Only $100 from ft myers to Detroit. I will never complain about gas prices again. Actually, I honestly hope it doubles. Is that what it would take for us to think? I don't think thinking is the problem. I think a lot. Talk a lot. What do I do? I use a travel mug and recycle some containers. Oh yeah I save a lot of trees too.
DSMc, what do you think of 'stand for trees' and carbon offset certificates? Sorry I forget who mentioned them. I think I need to give offsets a better chance. But who will they save my little plot when shit hits the fan. Enforcement might be a challenge. I heard rainforest cutters take what they can, regardless of property lines. I'd love to help protect the forest. It looks good but 'looks good' and 'is good' are often very different. 600 hp corvettes, 6000 sq foot homes. 6.6 litre diesels. 666. Like me. I might look good but I'm a monster. I leave Bigfoot sized carbon foot prints. Notice the plural.
I'm going to brush my teeth. Skip the shower. Disgusting? Or?
Tom, I checked on my super duper magic device and I'll read up more on that Edward Abbey. I've read lots of Dr. Seuss though. Damn thneeds.
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Last edited:
Redtree said:
....DSMc, what do you think of 'stand for trees' and carbon offset certificates? ....
Click to expand...

That was a great post, Redtree. Regarding your above question, I think they are going to make someone a lot of money. I know nothing about "stand for trees" and reading about the Kyoto protocol and what it may or may not be revised to, just makes my head hurt.

Remember that I am no scientist, just a simple tree man, but it seems to me they are treating CO2 as if it were global cholesterol. Using conventional wisdom, like Drs do with cholesterol, if there is too much of it the answer is to just get rid of the excess. It does nothing to address the cause and so requires constant re-treatments. Good money there. I believe that global pollution is the problem and CO2 is just a symptom. You would not believe some of the asinine CO2 removal suggestions put forth by some big money, think tanks.
 
Redtree said:
Very good points, Treetopflyer. And DSMc, thanks from me too for sharing your great perspective, your action to actually apply it to your own way of life, and your references. I think a lot of this is not time wasted. But I think we need to follow DSMc in being more self sufficient, more active. I'm guessing he's still in the process? If not tomorrow then the next time you roof your house or the next time you buy a vehicle. Basically every time you buy something, ask yourself, 'do I need this? Is it garbage already? How can I live without it? We can live without it. Where was it made? Shit I forgot , another barrier that the west built up on our own.
Put the manufacturing out the door to the point where many products aren't even made here. So then we send the money out the door. We send the resources. So indirectly we send the power. Or should I say, we've sent the power. All the while leaving carbon footprints behind the trucks and ships that move these thneeds. The global market is a bitch and the winners used our blind neediness, compounded by our cheapness. I've been ignorant too. I just wish it was somehow illegal to have this unbalanced trade. But again there's the producer AND the consumer. The governments made the first mistakes. The producers the next. And we made the third mistake. We bought it, literally.
These ideas are old not new. And I hope and think they can take more effect on mainstream as the reality of global warming, resource limits, and over consumption sets in, to common knowledge. I just fear what this means as the world leaders start to think 'ok we can't send the population to space so we gotta start making some cutbacks'. I don't want world war but isn't it kind of there already. Prettied up by shaking hands at photo opps. But really they turn there backs with their own country or their own countries corporate world or gdp in mind. I hate to be such a bummer.
Go Canada. Go usa. Keep on rocking in the free world. But is the world free to use? Or abuse? We need to think. Is this freedom or is it greedom? I'm greedy. so many things that I'm tied to that I'm not free. Should I be free to fly across the globe? Should I be free to smash a 2000 sq ft house and build one that's 5000? Mine is 1800, floored and heated with wood I cut but still on the grid.
Still dumping sewage, garbage and hurray, recycling. Should I be free to buy a coffee from a cleared rainforest in a disposable cup? Should I be free to drive to Florida and back? By the way that's a big, beautiful seasonal forest you guys have. Kentucky, Ohio. Keep it beautiful. It's more than a resource. See the oak at marker 155-154 on i75 in Ohio. 100 yards off to the east. Probably see it on google maps. Is that a state champ? I hope so. Looks great at 80 miles an hour. Great car I drive. Only $100 from ft myers to Detroit. I will never complain about gas prices again. Actually, I honestly hope it doubles. Is that what it would take for us to think? I don't think thinking is the problem. I think a lot. Talk a lot. What do I do? I use a travel mug and recycle some containers. Oh yeah I save a lot of trees too.
DSMc, what do you think of 'stand for trees' and carbon offset certificates? Sorry I forget who mentioned them. I think I need to give offsets a better chance. But who will they save my little plot when shit hits the fan. Enforcement might be a challenge. I heard rainforest cutters take what they can, regardless of property lines. I'd love to help protect the forest. It looks good but 'looks good' and 'is good' are often very different. 600 hp corvettes, 6000 sq foot homes. 6.6 litre diesels. 666. Like me. I might look good but I'm a monster. I leave Bigfoot sized carbon foot prints. Notice the plural.
I'm going to brush my teeth. Skip the shower. Disgusting? Or?
Tom, I checked on my super duper magic device and I'll read up more on that Edward Abbey. I've read lots of Dr. Seuss though. Damn thneeds.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
You sir are ninja iPhone user. I love dr.seuss...That said, ever hear of David Icke?
 
Treetopflyer said:
....I just don't know anymore..
I feel its gotta come from each person's choices.
Click to expand...

This is true. Being aware enough to recognise that something is amiss is the first step. Like I have said you can not force change in others, but can do so easily with yourself. Like the individual water drops that make a river, if enough "selves" change, they will be a force that will get noticed.

You don't need to go all native either. Small changes can make a big difference. Maybe start with something simple, like the food you eat. Buy organic, buy local and for gods sakes start reading labels. We are being poisoned. Global agriculture and the food industry are major players in our current problems.
 
DSMc said:
That was a great post, Redtree. Regarding your above question, I think they are going to make someone a lot of money. I know nothing about "stand for trees" and reading about the Kyoto protocol and what it may or may not be revised to, just makes my head hurt.

Remember that I am no scientist, just a simple tree man, but it seems to me they are treating CO2 as if it were global cholesterol. Using conventional wisdom, like Drs do with cholesterol, if there is too much of it the answer is to just get rid of the excess. It does nothing to address the cause and so requires constant re-treatments. Good money there. I believe that global pollution is the problem and CO2 is just a symptom. You would not believe some of the asinine CO2 removal suggestions put forth by some big money, think tanks.
Click to expand...
That was a great post red!
Dsmc do you think trees are the answer ? You may claim to be a simple TREE man ,but I think your part scientist.
I see where your coming from with the analogy .
 
DSMc said:
This is true. Being aware enough to recognise that something is amiss is the first step. Like I have said you can not force change in others, but can do so easily with yourself. Like the individual water drops that make a river, if enough "selves" change, they will be a force that will get noticed.

You don't need to go all native either. Small changes can make a big difference. Maybe start with something simple, like the food you eat. Buy organic, buy local and for gods sakes start reading labels. We are being poisoned. Global agriculture and the food industry are major players in our current problems.
Click to expand...
Yes sir...revert to eating.
Everyone has got to eat...cept the breatharians.
 
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