London bombing

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Tom Dunlap

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
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Retired in Minneapolis
Prayers go out to the people of London. What a difference a day makes...

From the joy of the Olympics to this.

These bombings are a continuation of the IRA bombings of years ago. They kill and hurt people who have little to nothing to do with world politics.

The bombers are cowards...the lot of 'em. Sure, I understand their motives, terrorism is nothing new. The pain that they cause is felt more by innocents.

On 9/11 I was at a friend's house taking down some trees. In the afternoon my helper said to me, "It's nice to live in a city [Minneapolis] that doesn't make a difference in the world." London, Madrid, NYC, DC all make a difference in the world.

Bombing innocents is like cutting down all trees just because a limb fell on a house. Arbos work to make peace in the tree world, we all need to work in the world to make peace.

A prayer for all of the family's losses...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4659237.stm
 
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we all need to work in the world to make peace.

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Right about that one Tom, it's just with bozo's like that, that you don't know what that work should look like.

There's nothing to justify those actions. Hitting on innocent people, just for thinking different about life and living it is one hell of a black spot in one's brain.

Wolter
 
Most people would use one of their Three Wishes to bring peace to the world. Until I find the genie in the bottle, I won't have that powerful a wish. Until then I try to think about how my actions might be a little war or peace.

We can all add to world peace in small ways. Giving way when you're driving instead of succuming to road rage. Hold doors open for people. Using just a little less in our lives. Smiling to people. Acting not reacting. There will always be people that justify their actions on both sides of the fence. Power comes in many forms.
 
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i bet it was that b6stard bin ladden, that was bushes mistake by taken the marines out of iraq

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That is just the kind of kneejerk reaction the world doesnt need right now.

Not every problem can be solved by sending in more Marines. In fact, on the evidence so far, hasnt that attitude created more problems than it solved?

Iraq as a nation was created in war, WW2 to be precise. The Middle East has been fought over because of its natural resources for decades. Wars dont end wars, its been proved over and over again.

The IRA has already been mentioned, and its a case in point. The divide in Ireland was brought about in the first place by us (the English) and in particular Cromwell interfering. It was never solved by force, it just made it worse. Northern Ireland is now more peaceful than it has ever been. How? By invasion, occupation and military rule? No, by diplomacy, negotiation, compromise and agreement. Its far from perfect but at least they're not trying to kill each other and the despised English non-stop.

The problem of war lies far deeper, and it has its roots in global injustice fuelled by greed. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, the people in power never admit that it is so.

Meanwhile, we wonder why those funny foreigners dont like us any more..........
 
It's days like today that make me ashamed to be a human.

Where will this world be when my children are trying to raise their children? Scary to think about. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't hear of some horrible tragedy done by one human to another. Disheartening to say the least.

As Tom said, my heart and prayers go out to the people impacted by this cowardly act.

911 hit very close to my heart. Sad to say that I can understand what some may be going through tonight.
 
This is also in large part a response to the first response above, and I'd started this earlier today, so don't know if the following information is still "the latest".

"He [Metropolitan Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick] said no warning had been given before the blasts and that no-one had yet claimed to be behind them.

"BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner said a previously unknown group calling itself the Secret Organisation Group of al-Qaeda of Jihad Organisation in Europe had claimed to be behind the attacks in a statement posted on an Islamist website."

-- from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4661059.stm

I'll believe the cop over the reporter on this one. This kind of stuff is just too convenient in terms of keeping the war fires burning and for selling news copy.

How about a link to the website, Mr. Gardner? It's nothing more than unsubstantiated innuendo. (not that a statement made on a website would necessarily prove anything -- it could be a forum where posters are anonymous, or the site could be run off a Microsoft-laden server which was defaced by some script-kiddie [or government/big-corporate lackey]; heck, folks even set up anonymous websites every day for the sole purpose of being used in conjunction with fake emails in hopes of getting hapless recipients to divulge personal information -- a website merely being in existence means next to nothing in itself, much less any content found there)

I'm not saying I'm either for or against al-Qaeda because I just don't know anything about them other than they're being made the boogie man for every little thing anymore. And that very aspect now makes me suspicious of whether they're really even "bad guys" at all. May be they're just patsies.

My heart goes out to the affected people in London and I hope they truly get to the bottom of it.
 
If it was an al queda event, it will come out shortly.

Quote......

"I'm not saying I'm either for or against al-Qaeda because I just don't know anything about them other than they're being made the boogie man for every little thing anymore. And that very aspect now makes me suspicious of whether they're really even "bad guys" at all. May be they're just patsies."

.........?????

That's a pretty bad statement. Maybe you wrote it a bit wrong because it sounds really bad. Really bad.
 
I think I inderstand what Glens is saying, although I also see how it could seem "bad".

We don't really know what al-Qaeda is. Its not a person, a country, a religion or anything quantifiable. Its more of a belief system that we cannot comprehend. It may have a leader in OBL, but it may function without him.

The bombing in London may have been done in the name of al-Qaeda, maybe not, either way what does that mean? In the past many have attacks have taken place and been linked to the IRA. Some attacks may have been made by people supporting the IRA but not actually part of it.

At present links are being made to al-Qaeda mostly because of the similarities with the Madrid bombing, i.e hitting commuters at rush hour. The one thing we do know is that it was a planned linked attack, not the work of one or two extremists.

If OBL and al-Qaeda are wiped out, these attacks could well continue as an example was set in 911 that that is an acceptable way for some people to express themselves. That is an extremely difficult situation to resolve.

This morning Londoners are going back to work, our thoughts are with them and those who have lost friends and family.
 
I follow a discussion forum that is based on the works of Patrick O'Brian, the author of the Master and Commander series. There are some very learned people on that forum who have backgrounds in history, law, international affairs or are just very well read. There are several really good threads that have some interesting insights about how things are in the world today. If you're interested, take a look, it should be evident which threads are related to POB's work.

http://www.wwnorton.com/forums/POB/POBforum.htm

Let me give you a hint, the easiest way to follow a thread is to open the first topic and then go to the box at the bottom right. Click Digest and the whole thread will be available. When you're done, click Index.
 
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That's a pretty bad statement. Maybe you wrote it a bit wrong because it sounds really bad. Really bad.

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I'll be glad to discuss it with you here in this (relatively) open forum. But first I'll need to know what it is you think I said, because I chose my words carefully and feel they're not "bad", and cannot understand how they could be construed that way if read as carefully as I chose them. Help me out here; what am I not seeing?

Unless by "bad" you mean my obvious reluctance to swallow without question everything big brother and their media lap-dogs offer me. I'm not likely to readily reconsider my position on that. "They" have far too great a history of insulting my intelligence and/or outright lying to me for me to not be wary/skeptical as a primary reaction. (I realize and acknowledge that the bulk of the individuals comprising "they" likely consider themselves well-meaning and honest, but for some reason those qualities often seem strangely vacant from the end results of their collective efforts)

Glen
 
If the link in Tom's post gives you an 404 error, than you should copy the whole link (from http to html) and past it in the adress.

It's worth the read. It shows us why and it shows us that there is no point in reasoning with extremists. They are all in the attack-mode not the reason-mode.

Wolter
 
Glens,

I'm not trying to kick up a hornets nest here, but I found your quote "I don't know if I'm for or against al-queda" quite offensive. We live in a free country here and are able to say what we want, I respect your right for free speech. Why would you doubt that al-queda is not a terrorist organization? Although they may not choose to take credit for recent "terroristic" acts, they are an admitted terrorist organization.

Do you know of any terrorist organization that does something posititive?

I may be over-reacting, for which I apologize, but I've lost close friends through terrorism and I have close friends and family that have either been to...or are still in Iraq fighting for WORLD freedom so granola munchers can sit at their computers and write their dopey negative opinions freely on how are country is run.

/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

You can take your Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker off now.............they lost.
 
"You can take your Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker off now.............they lost."

Tree Dr,

LOL...Thanks for that one .
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Hey Butch, that atrocity supposedly wasn't nearly as "messy" as it "should" have been.

I'm not taking the claims at face value, and can neither confirm nor deny anything because my copy of the video is just way too low-res, but http://www.physics911.net/otherattacks.htm (just past halfway down) raises a few points of possible contention with that beheading video. Do you have a copy larger/better than the 5 MB WMV file I have, and if so, can you verify anything they're saying about it? I imagine I can occasionally see some rings, but that's about the extent of it.

(Bear in mind that my skepticism about all this kind of stuff started at least when I was still a teenager. I distinctly remember thinking to myself while in some high school social studies (or history?) class and seeing footage of German officers shooting mangy-looking prisoners in the head, such that they'd fall into a mass grave pit: "why in the world would they film that; and is it possibly Russians wearing captured uniforms staging it for some reason?" It was some time I later learned of Stalin's purges which vastly outnumbered (by more than double?) the purported ~6 million deaths at the hands of the Nazis. The saying that "(popular?) history is written by the victors" is quite true, you know!)

Thanks,
Glen
 
Glens,

Are you smoking crack with this post? I was expecting a bigger comeback than this nonsense.



QUOTE>>>>>>(Bear in mind that my skepticism about all this kind of stuff started at least when I was still a teenager. I distinctly remember thinking to myself while in some high school social studies (or history?) class and seeing footage of German officers shooting mangy-looking prisoners in the head, such that they'd fall into a mass grave pit: "why in the world would they film that; and is it possibly Russians wearing captured uniforms staging it for some reason?" It was some time I later learned of Stalin's purges which vastly outnumbered (by more than double?) the purported ~6 million deaths at the hands of the Nazis. The saying that "(popular?) history is written by the victors" is quite true, you know!)...........????HUH???


It seems you are a history buff, and I can appreciate and respect that, but your left-wing post gibberish about al-queda pissed me off and I wanted you to know that.

We should put this one to rest before I get started and things get real ugly.
 
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