Liberalism ruins everything it touches.

[owScott]

Apology accepted.

Worded another way, perhaps: whose right is greater, a woman's (my) "right" to choose to murder her (my) unborn child, or her (my) unborn child's right to not be murdered in the (my) womb.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

IMO its the 1st. I just dont believe the 3rd player here, the govt, should be involved in that desicion. I fully respect your right to make that decision for yourself, but other people making that desicion for someone else is none of their business.

 

[owScott]

Just think of all the time, money and energy that people have expended in the previuos decades demanding that other people live the way they want them too were used to address the problems children and our world have been struggling with. Do these people really think this is solving a problem that really exsists? Maybe in their own mind. Nothing will change in their lives other than the feeling of control which is weakness disguised as power.

 

[CHTjules]

IMO its the 1st. I just dont believe the 3rd player here, the govt, should be involved in that desicion. I fully respect your right to make that decision for yourself, but other people making that desicion for someone else is none of their business.

So the government also shouldn't be involved in my decision to murder someone who just happens to be outside my uterus?

 

[CHTjules]

@CHTjules , what are your thoughts on ectopic pregnancies, obviously the fetus will not be viable and there is a significant risk of life threatening hemorrhage for the mother, is this an acceptable time for an abortion?

Ectopic pregnancies occur outside of the uterus (the "womb"), mostly occuring in a fallopian tube. The definition of a medical abortion is the removal of the unborn child from the mother's womb (uterus) which results in the ending (death) of the pregnancy that's in the uterus. Treating an ectopic pregnancy isn't the same thing as a medical abortion, and neither is a miscarriage (although a miscarriage is also called a spontaneous abortion it should not be confused with a medical abortion).

 

[CHTjules]

Just think of all the time, money and energy that people have expended in the previuos decades demanding that other people live the way they want them too were used to address the problems children and our world have been struggling with. Do these people really think this is solving a problem that really exsists? Maybe in their own mind. Nothing will change in their lives other than the feeling of control which is weakness disguised

Murder is a problem that really exists. There were 862,000 abortions in the United States in 2017 (the lowest number since abortion became legal in 1973), which was (and remains) the leading cause of death in the U.S. In 2017 647,457 Americans died from the second-leading cause of death, heart disease. So yes, it is solving the very real problem of innocent children in the womb being murdered.

 

[Serf Life]

Funny how pro-life doesn’t mean pro-narcan or anti-war

 

[owScott]

So the government also shouldn't be involved in my decision to murder someone who just happens to be outside my uterus?

Thats a ridiculous comparison. You are trying to lump everything in 1 basket which isnt reality. So to put it in the terms that you understand, yes murdering someone while they are still inside the body is acceptable, murdering someone when they are outside the body is not. I can see there is a difference. I am ok with this. What about our military members when they kill a Taliban soldier? Is that murder?What about our American money going to Ukranie to kill Russian soldiers is this murder?

 

[evo]

Apology accepted.

Worded another way, perhaps: whose right is greater, a woman's (my) "right" to choose to murder her (my) unborn child, or her (my) unborn child's right to not be murdered in the (my) womb.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

Would you be comfortable breaking down this into two separate points of view?

Many (myself included) feel that ‘life’ doesn’t start when the sperm meets the egg but when the organism can sustain its self. So therefore it’s not murder if the person chooses to end the pregnancy.
Now the other group seems to believe life starts at the point where the sperm meets the egg.
Since no one actually knows what is the harm of making a individual choice?
Respectfully it is fairly obvious you seem to consider it murder, but can you not see and respect there are others with a different point of view?

 

[evo]

Funny how pro-life doesn’t mean pro-narcan or anti-war

Slippery slope huh? What about compassionate care? Assisted end of life? The latter is something I will speak about with taking the gloves off. It’s a personal choice!

 

[Serf Life]

So what will states do to support the parents of unwanted pregnancies? Fucking crickets

 

[CHTjules]

Would you be comfortable breaking down this into two separate points of view?

Many (myself included) feel that ‘life’ doesn’t start when the sperm meets the egg but when the organism can sustain its self. So therefore it’s not murder if the person chooses to end the pregnancy.
Now the other group seems to believe life starts at the point where the sperm meets the egg.
Since no one actually knows what is the harm of making a individual choice?
Respectfully it is fairly obvious you seem to consider it murder, but can you not see and respect there are others with a different point of view?

"Since no one actually knows"....then the harm of a woman making an indiviudal choice is "potentially" killing a life, since "no one actually knows".

I do see and respect there are others with a different point of view from mine that life begins at conception. It still will not stop me from trying to respectfully raise a ruckus that abortion is the killing of an innocent human in the womb. Unfortunately I haven't often seem the same respect from those with a different viewpoint of when life begins towards others who feel the same as I in this thread, and other conversations.

 

[CHTjules]

Thats a ridiculous comparison. You are trying to lump everything in 1 basket which isnt reality. So to put it in the terms that you understand, yes murdering someone while they are still inside the body is acceptable, murdering someone when they are outside the body is not. I can see there is a difference. I am ok with this. What about our military members when they kill a Taliban soldier? Is that murder?What about our American money going to Ukranie to kill Russian soldiers is this murder?

Abortion is the killing of innocent life (murder) within the womb. The argument could be made that killing a Taliban soldier or Russian soldiers is not necessarily killing the innocent. If someone is murdered while walking down the street, the murderer is, hopefully, convicted, as all murderers should be.

 

[CHTjules]

So what will states do to support the parents of unwanted pregnancies? Fucking crickets

There is a lot of help outside of the government for the parents of unwanted pregnancies. Private pro-life pregnancy centers are one place to start.

 

[owScott]

So the government also shouldn't be involved in my decision to murder someone who just happens to be outside my uterus?

Abortion is the killing of innocent life (murder) within the womb. The argument could be made that killing a Taliban soldier or Russian soldiers is not necessarily killing the innocent. If someone is murdered while walking down the street, the murderer is, hopefully, convicted, as all murderers should be.

So you are on shakey ground here. Are you saying that there is an acceptable time to murder a human being but only when you deem it is ok? You are lumping people all in 1 group with this whole inside and outside the uterus idea, why wouldnt an innocent or not innocent russian soldier be the same in this equation? You cant have it both ways

 

[owScott]

Abortion is the killing of innocent life (murder) within the womb. The argument could be made that killing a Taliban soldier or Russian soldiers is not necessarily killing the innocent. If someone is murdered while walking down the street, the murderer is, hopefully, convicted, as all murderers should be.

I invite you to think for a moment on the words "not necessarily" and " the arguement could be made". In life sometimes tough desicions are made and they can be ugly.

 

[AdkEric]

Ectopic pregnancies occur outside of the uterus (the "womb"), mostly occuring in a fallopian tube. The definition of a medical abortion is the removal of the unborn child from the mother's womb (uterus) which results in the ending (death) of the pregnancy that's in the uterus. Treating an ectopic pregnancy isn't the same thing as a medical abortion, and neither is a miscarriage (although a miscarriage is also called a spontaneous abortion it should not be confused with a medical abortion).

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

My reason for asking- lawmakers in Missouri introduced an anti-abortion bill a few months ago that would have banned termination of ectopic pregnancies. Fortunately, it faced severe backlash and that part of the bill was revised.

It stands to reason that if a lawmaker is pushing a bill like that, in it's original state, then there is a percentage of the population in his district that shares in his ignorance. I find that alarming.

 

[CHTjules]

I invite you to think for a moment on the words "not necessarily" and " the arguement could be made". In life sometimes tough desicions are made and they can be ugly.

Yes, the murder of an innocent life, including an unborn child through abortion, is ugly.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

 

[CHTjules]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

My reason for asking- lawmakers in Missouri introduced an anti-abortion bill a few months ago that would have banned termination of ectopic pregnancies. Fortunately, it faced severe backlash and that part of the bill was revised.

It stands to reason that if a lawmaker is pushing a bill like that, in it's original state, then there is a percentage of the population in his district that shares in his ignorance. I find that alarming.

I am very aware of what happened in Missouri, and it was stupid and hurt the anti-abortion cause.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

 

[CHTjules]

At this very moment the 14th amendment does in fact protect the right of women to choose what they do with their bodies, and it been that way for 50 years. Alito has an asshole and an opinion just like the rest of us and his initial draft is just that, a draft. Until something changes the 14th amendment is the law of the land and many of us are gonna do anything and everything necessary to keep it that way..

In case you didn't read it, this quote starts on page 5 and throughout the entire document there is continuous evidence that the 14th Amendment does not protect a woman's choice to murder her unborn child.

"We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled. The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any consitutional provision, including the one on which the defenders of Roe and Casey now chiefly rely - the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. That provision has been held to guarantee some rights that are not mentioned in the Consitution, but any such right must be "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition" and "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty" ... The right to abortion does not fall within this category. Until the latter part of the 20th century, such a right was entirely unknown in American law. Indeed, when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, three quarters of the States made abortion a crime at all stages of pregnancy. The abortion right is also critically different from any other right that this Court has held to fall within the Fourteenth Amendment's protection of "liberty." Roe's defenders characterize the abortion right as similiar to the rights recognized in past decisions involving matter such as intimate sexual relations, contraception, and marriage, but abortion is fundamentally different, as both Roe and Casey acknowledged, because it destroys what those decisions called "fetal life" and what the law now before us describes as an "unborn human being."

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Dan Cobb]

Don't overlook the fact that making abortion illegal will not stop abortions. No more than Prohibition stopped alcohol consumption.

Those with the means will simply go to another state or country where it's legal. Those without the means will turn to underground providers and many women will suffer the consequences.