kernmantle advise wanted.

evo

evo

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My Island, WA
I believe that I've miss understood "static" kernmantle ropes. I'm shopping for a rope to use DDrt and SRT, is there a kernmantle that has enough stretch for DDrt and is "static" enough for SRT? From reading up on them it my take is that there are energry adsorbing kernmatle lines out there. Is my impression wrong that they are very static under light loads (ie just climbing) but in the case of a fall they will stretch to help with the impact forces? Will these characteristics be of any value to a climbers weight or are they designed to be used with higher weights as in two person loads? I've been looking at HTP as a cross over rope, does anyone use it DDrt?
 
Get the Safari kernmaster from Luke at treestuff, you'll be good to go Evo....it has good stretch and is a great SRT rope...gotta get a stitched eye though as it's a complicated hand splice...bad azzed rope...here is a pic when I got it...it's 11mm and feels like 11.5mm, the lanyard there is the regular 11mm kernmaster....
 

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There is a LOT of confusion regarding which rope construction should be used for SRT. The rope construction is less important than performance and compatibility with rope tools. When most people think of kernmantle rope the image that comes up is a rope that looks like NE KMIII or mountAineering/rock climbing rope where the covering looks more like cloth than rope.

In the past this construction was the only one available that was compatible with toothed cam ascenders. Now there are other ropes that aren't KM ropes but the manufacturer's give them the OK.

Even if you get an eye splice consider the rope's knotability. This is a criteria that isn't talked about much with new SRT climbers. The more you climb the more times you're going to want tie midline loops or terminate the other end with a compact knot or hitch.

This is my broken record I know...Tachyon covers so many characteristics for me that its my favorite. I don't use toothed cam ascenders for life support on Tachyon so that is a moot point.
 
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I believe that I've miss understood "static" kernmantle ropes. I'm shopping for a rope to use DDrt and SRT, is there a kernmantle that has enough stretch for DDrt and is "static" enough for SRT? From reading up on them it my take is that there are energry adsorbing kernmatle lines out there. Is my impression wrong that they are very static under light loads (ie just climbing) but in the case of a fall they will stretch to help with the impact forces? Will these characteristics be of any value to a climbers weight or are they designed to be used with higher weights as in two person loads? I've been looking at HTP as a cross over rope, does anyone use it DDrt?

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Evo, before discussing rope, what device or system do you intend to use for SRT and DdRT? There are mechanical and hitch based systems for both techniques.
 
I'm currently climbing on Tachyon there was a mistake when it was shipped to me and my 150' is really only 120'. I'm looking to buy 200' of something.... I've only used srt a dozen times or so. I also don't do much climbing, I'd say at most 10-15 work climbs a month. Most of it is the odd job when there can be two climber, and no one on the ground.

Any way I'm getting sick of the 120' line, and I do Ddrt most of the time. When I do srt it's using a wrench (zk-1) with a paintin and a hand acender w/foot loop. Also I would love to try a hitch hiker when I can justify it. I don't tether the acender to the harness. I imagine myself using a 200' kernmantle srt for about 1/3 access (working Ddrt from it), 1/3 srt work climbs, and 1/3 Ddrt..
 
From your description a hank of Kernmaster, like swing dude said, with an eye would work well.

As Tom eluded to, not all kernmantles are the same. Think of it as a family or rope. How different kernmantles achieve "stretch" under load may be very different.

From personal experience, it seems that our rope use in very similar percentage wise. I have been using a piece of 11mm Kernmaster for well over a year as my main line and really like it.

It knots well, is comparable with the mechanical devices I use and a 5 wrap
Michoacán with 11mm bee line performs well.

Tony
 
Very good advice from the above folks.

One thing to add. Whatever rope that you buy, make sure that it meets EN1891 Type A Standards; sufficient energy absorption to withstand a factor 1 fall without the need for energy absorbers.

I run 2 SRT systems, depending on the job, one with Tachyon and my RW and the other KMIII with my HH.
 
Good thread going here.
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I'm currently preferring double braid line for my climbing systems. I've been on a Rope Wrench for a while, though I sometimes use a Hitch Hiker and Unicender. Imori and Tachyon are both great with the hitch based units, though the Uni loves Tachyon.

I could really give any advice on ropes I haven't used. There are so many choices available that it can be a lifetime to try them all. In general, I would say that less "memory" inherent in the line will improve hitch performance and reliability.

What I will say is this...

I have tried kernmantle lines that have similar elongation to Tachyon. If elongation is your primary issue, make certain to buy a line with a lower percentage than the Tachyon you are currently using. Otherwise, you won't inherit anything new except potentially less knotability.

If toothed cam ascender compatibility is your concern, consider recommendations from both rope and ascender manufacturers, or using them in non-life support configuration as Tom suggested.
 
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I believe that I've miss understood "static" kernmantle ropes. I'm shopping for a rope to use DDrt and SRT, is there a kernmantle that has enough stretch for DDrt and is "static" enough for SRT? From reading up on them it my take is that there are energry adsorbing kernmatle lines out there. Is my impression wrong that they are very static under light loads (ie just climbing) but in the case of a fall they will stretch to help with the impact forces? Will these characteristics be of any value to a climbers weight or are they designed to be used with higher weights as in two person loads? I've been looking at HTP as a cross over rope, does anyone use it DDrt?

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Lots of great knowledge from the top of the game here.
I'll add a couple little thoughts from the bottom. I've tried all kinds of 12 strand, 16 strand, double braid, HTP kernmantle, Fly kernmantle with 24 braid cover and and just ordered 600' of HTP for my douglas fir adventures in Oregon.

Remember, the rope is your primary tool in your "tool box" to climb with. Good carpenters use table saws, cross cut saws, hand saws etc etc. One rope won't do it all, it is best to have several to meet the needs of the day and your style.
If you already have a double braid but don't like it because it is too short maybe your next step is to add something different to bridge the gap like a static HTP. Maybe use the low stretch HTP to ascend with and then attach your Tachyon to the HTP at the place you plan to DdRT. Kind of like a carpenter using a Shopsmith. But I find the move versatility I get in something, the less well it will perform for specific tasks.
Lots of choices!

Edit........600' of bright green HTP just arrived! So pretty, I can't wait to get it dirty!
 
Putting my SRT vote in here for Tachyon with Imori number 2. Imori would be number 1 except for it's a tight squeeze in my Grigri (Grigri original not the Grigri II).

When I do longer SRT ascents multiple times a day I use a cammed ascender that doesn't have teeth. I'm fine using a RADS on double braids with a toothed ascender, the ascender is not tethered to my harness so in case of shock load all the force goes to the Grigri, Rig or whatever device is the inline descender.

A big benefit of the double braids over the kernmantle ropes is their suppleness (good handling and knotability) and versatility. For example if you find yourself in a situation where you'd like a second tie-in DRT with the tail of your rope, you can do it real quick and simple with a Blakes Hitch.
-AJ
 
The only issue i have with kernmantle ropes is generally the cover is thinner than those of double braids and you cannot splice them for a streamlined connection.
That being said, i'm in love with HTP for srt, but sterling also makes some really nice ropes that they market for double line use. Platinum is also a very nice supple rope that takes knots very well.
 
Cougar rocks for everything, seriously the best rope out there right now. Much more responsive than Tachyon (no bounce or stretch) good shock absorbency and hand spliceable. It's the bizniss, try it!
 
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The only issue i have with kernmantle ropes is generally the cover is thinner than those of double braids and you cannot splice them for a streamlined connection.
That being said, i'm in love with HTP for srt, but sterling also makes some really nice ropes that they market for double line use. Platinum is also a very nice supple rope that takes knots very well.

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Fly is interesting in that it is a splice-able kernmantle with a 24 braid cover. Pretty stretchy for long SRT ascents though.

One more note from me. If somebody said, "grab a rope and lets go climb" but gave me no details, I'd take my 200' Poison Ivy.
 
I would call the fly a 'funny double braid' rather than a kern mantle. But if they could get the fly just a bit more static I think it would be an instant favorite.
 
You might also look into Yale Luna, very damn good rope SRT or DdRT....cougar is great too, I have a good few ropes and they all double great SRT/DdRT, minimal bounce, which is why after 3 Tachyon ropes I am no longer in that boat.....basically these new breed of 24 strand ropes are the bees knees...look at Yale Aztec these Yale ropes are basically Yale PI but with cool color schemes...all my stuff comes from Treestuff these days....
 
thanks for all the help. Can anyone compare climbing on kernmaster to arbormaster? Looking at the specs, it seems like the stretch is very similar. Does anyone make non tooth hand ascenders? I'm going to wait until I can get to these ropes in person to see their feel.
 
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If only tree stuff had the pink and purple colour combo I would be a happy man.

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Well Waldo you could always pop over to " good " " ole " Sherrill and get your Calamine....
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thanks for all the help. Can anyone compare climbing on kernmaster to arbormaster? Looking at the specs, it seems like the stretch is very similar. Does anyone make non tooth hand ascenders? I'm going to wait until I can get to these ropes in person to see their feel.

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evo, it all depends on what type of kernmantle you are comparing the ArborMaster rope to. We need more info from you. What specs are you comparing? Remember that there are 3 types of kernmantle rope construction; dynamic, semi-static (eg - KMIII), and static.

As far as non tooth ascenders goes, there are all kinds out there to choose from. People tend to just focus on Petzl, but they do not make any non tooth ascenders or rope grabs. In fact IMO, their ascenders are way too aggressive.

Check out the following manufacturers; HeighTec, ISC, Miller, SRTE and CMI. Just remember, with any ascenders or rope grabs, you are looking for a product that can be guaranteed to take a 6kN impact load without cutting the sheath.
 
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