Isc triple action snap failure to close.

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A rope snap with a gate that it stuck wide open? That my friends is the kinda shit that gets folks crippled or killed...Plain and simple...Gave me the fucking shivers just thinking about something like that happening when spurring up a 180 ft Fir...

We know that ISC was aware of the issue because they redesigned the snap, but for some strange reason they decided not to send out a safety warning and recall for that POS....Why?
 
Steve Connally said:
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Didn't the incident in the video happen a few years ago? So if it was so important to share, why did it take so long. Also I use one, have for years. Had one stuck open in the tree. Smacked it against the trunk and it was fixed. Never recreated the problem and to this day I still use it. I'm very in tune of my gear and how its working, sounding, and feeling in my hands. I don't rely on the sound of the gate closing before I move on to the next task. I look. I don't think its going to lock open on its own. Has to be opened by hand. Once its opened you would have to work at noticing it hasn't closed. Thats just me. Not everybody is like that.

I totally agree with the need or a redesign and a cautionary advisory but what I don't agree with is the burn ISC at the stake mentality. When this happened did Dan immediately contact them and what happened? It's a way delayed response. Yes one that has to be addressed, but no need to get everyone's britches in a bunch. How about putting down the torches and pitchforks and ask............Here's the problem, whatcha gonna do about it?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure this thread has gone too badly for ISC, but it could and I would not want that. On the other hand, I had a few carabiners disqualified at Legends until I went over them a bit. One of the tests was something that I would never do aloft - close the gate slowly instead of just releasing it to snap shut. This snap issue is something that might not happen with normal use, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be disqualified until the issue is resolved.
 
rico said:
View attachment 67749
A rope snap with a gate that it stuck wide open? That my friends is the kinda shit that gets folks crippled or killed...Plain and simple...Gave me the fucking shivers just thinking about something like that happening when spurring up a 180 ft Fir...

We know that ISC was aware of the issue because they redesigned the snap, but for some strange reason they decided not to send out a safety warning and recall for that POS....Why?
Click to expand...


Well.....and there's that!!!!
 
So I don't disagree with Rico or anybody that feels that ISC should make a notice or "IF" in fact they actually knew about it and didn't send something out then shame on them. I don't know any of this for a fact so I'm not going to sit here and trash ISC over something that happened in 2016 and came out in a video in 2020. On the other hand if they knew, then that's bad stuff rite there.

On to Rico's last post. Here's my thoughts. So if you squeeze it to open and that's where it sticks then how come he didn't catch it? So there's nothing on that skinny pine pole that would have accidentally opened the clip via 3 actions. Therefore I challenge that when he clipped it into his D he didn't check his shit. Same deal when people are clipping their lanyard into their plastic caritool by accident. So what i'm saying is if somebody is gonna fall from this its because they didn't check their shit. Everyone should be taught, and it should become and automatic habit, to look at each and every connection they make. Even if i'm on my rope and I click in my 3 action ISC clip, I damn sure look at the connection I just made. If I'm clipping some kind of hardware on to my saddle that my life depends on I damn sure look. It's a super pain in the ass when its raining or cold out because that requires me to move garments out of the way so I can see the connection.

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with the snap because obviously there is but..........if you aren't in tune with your shit you will be responsible for your own death and blaming it on ISC would be not totally correct. Would they be culpable? Yes but by what measure because if you went by the sound of a click to bet your life on, you are doing as much harm. So many people clip into that damn caritool and there have been a bunch or injuries from it. It's the result of not being in tune with your stuff. I have muscle memory actions I don't even think about having to check certain things because it's just what I do every single time. Every single time without fail ever!!! My biners go on my bridge connection a certain way. Gate to the right for the multicender. If i'm MRS the terminating end biner gate is to the left. I know it by feeling it in my hand and if it's not like that my brain is telling me something is wrong because I always do it the same way each and every time. So I cannot see I would ever have an unclipped clip and not even know it.

Having said that........I agree this needs to be addressed with a notice including s/n for all clips made prior to the upgrade date. If in fact they upgraded the clip because of issues then I should have seen something from ISC showing the s/n and a partial or full recall/do not use anymore notice. I also see the potential for someone who doesn't perform the safe work practices I do to get dead from this. I still don't understand how you don't do those practices.

I'm not disputing any of the common sense posts on here. I'm just not all about the hostility towards ISC until we find out exactly what's what and give them a chance to respond. If it turns out they end up with egg on their face then so be it but it's too early to march on the caste and catapult boiling oil over the walls. Give it a minute to find out what the story is. Perhaps ask Rich directly to address concerns on here. No need to circle the wagons yet.

Now as far as the delay in the video. I get it, it was a video to talk about sharing close calls and it so happened this was the example even though it was 4 years ago. No fault to Dan for that. I'm just saying when did ISC get notified about the incident? How soon after the close call? What was their response?

Anybody who knows me from years and years on here has watched the ups and downs of my career and knows I have never been shy about sharing my own screwups or close calls. I'm 100% transparent. Always have been and always will. I believe sharing helps others and elevates all of us. Hell I spent over 2 hours at last expo talking about all the mistakes i've made with my business and people have benefitted from that.

Again, I don't disagree with any of you. Just not ready to storm the castle yet. And by the way, until I get a recall notice i'll be continuing to use mine every time I climb. If I fall to my death because of it I will allow you all to tell my wife she has to have ISC on my headstone. You can also caption it "Here lays a stubborn SOB, loved by few, liked by fewer, and hated by many."
 
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Steve Connally said:
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Didn't the incident in the video happen a few years ago? So if it was so important to share, why did it take so long. Also I use one, have for years. Had one stuck open in the tree. Smacked it against the trunk and it was fixed. Never recreated the problem and to this day I still use it. I'm very in tune of my gear and how its working, sounding, and feeling in my hands. I don't rely on the sound of the gate closing before I move on to the next task. I look. I don't think its going to lock open on its own. Has to be opened by hand. Once its opened you would have to work at noticing it hasn't closed. Thats just me. Not everybody is like that.

I totally agree with the need or a redesign and a cautionary advisory but what I don't agree with is the burn ISC at the stake mentality. When this happened did Dan immediately contact them and what happened? It's a way delayed response. Yes one that has to be addressed, but no need to get everyone's britches in a bunch. How about putting down the torches and pitchforks and ask............Here's the problem, whatcha gonna do about it?
Click to expand...
Regardless if Dan camped on informing ISC or anyone else (publicly posting). ISC knows and new of the issue. I do recall something about a locking “jamming” issue not too long after they came out. Hell they (ISC) beefed up the gates. I can also tell you that it’s not new news that they are also aware the beefed up 2017 model isn’t entirely a cure and also jamming up.
I’m not taking anything anyone is saying as trying to burn ISC at the stake. Perhaps they should pull the design, or recall, or send out a technical notice (very likely in the works). Maybe it is just me, but I was skeptical of the design from the beginning. It took me many years and a mistake purchase to get one (thought it was the carabiner lock version in my shopping cart). I never liked it, didn’t really like the construction or the action in hand. I watched it like a hawk, and had too many issues with it (jamming or cross loading the fixed eye in the steel core thimble). A bit later thought I’d give it a second try, and got the swivel.. first sign and I hung it up and forgot about it.

Now I do seriously question if Dans gate was ever closed. I certainly didn’t see him bashing it about on the way up that tree... I also wonder what in the hell he was doing, much easier to fell the pine! Plenty of room!
 
I well looks like all my questions, points, or observations have been asked by Steve above or in the follow up video..
 
evo said:
I also wonder what in the hell he was doing, much easier to fell the pine! Plenty of room!
Click to expand...


He went over the job details in a follow up video. It was a habitat creation job. Chopping tops, making intentionally bad cuts to promote rot/decay. Leaving standing trunks.
 
Ok so I’ll stand corrected on some of my points. Somehow I missed the post from
Rich. I also watched the follow up video. I’ve used them since they came out. I have 3 or 4 of them. Only 1 in use and it’s a new design. I agree that a cautionary notice should have been sent in 2016 when ISC learned of the issue. I still check my connections but it would have been nice to be told about the issues. So much for me paying attention. Lol. Always a day late and dollar short.
 
Think about this?
Spin lock was near perfect just torquse and check
Single action too dangerous. Accident right
Double action improvement not good enough
Triple action nice try but some foolery fixed that
Biner, snaps, buckles, connects all need attention.
ISC did a fuckin amazing job. There is always someone who will bungle it up.
Two tie ins all the time and a third at the ready avoids all this fuckin nonsense and loss of life or seriuos injury
 
Pushaw! Assume the worst, hope for the best and work to not be complacent. Constantly checking ones shit, as eloquently put by Steve, is the way to fly. Preferably not checking three climbing systems at once... *Not disputing two tie ins while cutting*. Two or three tie-ins and fancy gear won’t stop dumb mistakes.
 
Auto manufacturers could probably save a ton of money and headaches by putting out a notice like that about your brakes, or heck, your whole vehicle for that matter. " Well, did you check the whole vehicle over before you drove to the store?" "Well there you go....."

Accept people are speaking of this happening in use and with little use. The snap banging against the tree sounds like it could be enough at times.
 
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Well hey, look what happened Thursday. What might have happened instead with a morning gear inspection as indicated in the inspection notice. Instead, this. There's a leaf in there. Maybe we should inspect for leaves, top and bottom, before refocusing on our spikeless pruning.
 
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