Insurance Lobbying

I may be behind on what I know, but I've been thinking the past few days. I'm a Utility Forester and this past week I visited a residence for a customer call in. We just finished ROW maintenance on this particular circuit. This guy has a Red Maple that he wanted us to take down. Long story short, it was out of the ROW and leaning towards the house. So, we can't do it. I explained the how and why of this particular situation and gave him a business card for a local tree service. He replies that he's not really interested in paying for it, and that he is going to check with his insurance company. He wants to know that if and when it falls on the house will they cover the costs. This gets my wheels to turning a bit. Now I'm wondering if the tree care industry should use the insurance companies to do some lobbying on our behalf. I'm thinking that they may/won't cover tree damages due to negligent practices, TOPPING comes to mind. I kinda think that this could work to change the topping mentality and bring some credibilty to the tree care industry. As I said, I may be behind on what I know, but I figure this is a good place to gain some insight.
 
Don't know about your part of the world but my experience with insurance companies is that they will avoid the payoff at all costs. If he's acknowledged the hazard and doesn't act on it and the insurance company knows about it, I would think that he voids his policy in the event of damage.
 
Homeowners are obligated by law to monitor and maintain trees on their property. If there is a hazardous condition then they are responsible to have it removed or the hazard mitigated. The insurance co's will hang their hat on that and deny coverage. He's playing a fool's game.
 
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I may be behind on what I know, but I've been thinking the past few days. I'm a Utility Forester and this past week I visited a residence for a customer call in. We just finished ROW maintenance on this particular circuit. This guy has a Red Maple that he wanted us to take down. Long story short, it was out of the ROW and leaning towards the house. So, we can't do it. I explained the how and why of this particular situation and gave him a business card for a local tree service. He replies that he's not really interested in paying for it, and that he is going to check with his insurance company. He wants to know that if and when it falls on the house will they cover the costs. This gets my wheels to turning a bit. Now I'm wondering if the tree care industry should use the insurance companies to do some lobbying on our behalf. I'm thinking that they may/won't cover tree damages due to negligent practices, TOPPING comes to mind. I kinda think that this could work to change the topping mentality and bring some credibilty to the tree care industry. As I said, I may be behind on what I know, but I figure this is a good place to gain some insight.

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Yes, this is a good place to gain some insight and you are asking good questions.

I assume that insurance companies because of some genetic defect will always try to avoid any possible claims. Some of your post's responses would seem to agree with that, but maybe the developing thread will give you the support to push for new considerations.

I am writing about an interesting contrast with insurance companies in England where I battled many years ago to keep them from cutting down trees. The short story is that I read insurance companies in the British Isles were cutting down trees rather than paying subsidence claims for foundations and buildings. The rationale was that the trees were drawing enough water from the ground to collapse the soils and cause structural damage. The problems therefore were the trees, and the solutions were simple; "Off with their trunks!"--very British.

But if you look behind the curtain, repair work on foundation and walls was very expensive and chopping down trees was very cheap. All it needed to lock the idea in place was a judge with a poker up his butt to decide that a somewhat distant tree had physically attacked and harmed a big apartment complex in the vicinity. It didn't matter that the original foundation work might've been substandard, this was a simple decision of cause-and-effect.

I was worried about the stupidity of that idea traveling across the pond to the States where we might have the start of another slaughter of innocent trees. If trees were really drying out the soil, I muttered, just rehydrate the affected areas. Seemed simple enough and straight to the point.

Well, I wasn't successful and it's a big time business over there now, with little old women peeking out from behind their curtains at lurking willows intent on cracking their bricks., Ah, the humanity.

We may not be far away from insurance companies monitoring the police bands for accidents in order to send teams out to finish off victims before they can make claims. Seems logical.

As my grandpa would tell me, never stand between somebody and a buck; you'll likely get a concussion.

Wulkowicz


My battle: http://users.rcn.com/bobw.enteract/UKSubsidence2.2.html
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I got a call for a big pine removal last year. This thing was at least 5 years dead and over a pool. I had a look around and saw some more work to be done on site but couldn't sell it. I removed the pine and asked" why not do the other work while I'm here? If money is an issue we can figure something out." No No No. he said he was going to wait for mother nature to help out and claim it on his insurance. Well that happened. Two other big pines came down crushing his pool and ripping off a corner of his house. A well thought out plan? Hardly. His ins co covered half of the house repair and told him to tend to the other trees on the property. He has since been dropped by that co. I don't get it, what cost him 15-20 grand to fix never would have happened in the first place if he had spent the extra 1500 while I was there.
 
A few months back we did an oak limb clean up (what was on the ground only). Yes after the 18" leader came down in a wind storm and totaled two cars and crushed the roof of the garage. The tree is over 36" DBH and now compromised as well as two large remaining leaders over the driveway and new garage roof.
Insurance company adjuster said the company would not cover corective action on the tree or removal of the tree. The owner also aware of the situation did not want to do anything either, he figures the insurance company will just pay again. I asked the adjuster wouldn't it make sense to pay much less now to correct/prevent instead of costing a fortune later? he said clearly YES but not their policy. Wonder why we pay so much for insurance!
 
scrat,

My sister manages the loss adjustment dept of a large western Canadian insurance co. I asked her pretty much the same question: "Would it be at all worthwhile for a homeowner to approach his insurance company to pay for hazard tree remediation/removal BEFORE it damages the property to the tune of thousands more?"

No.

Her analogy: "If you have a tire blow out on your car and that causes an accident, we will fix/replace your car as far as you are insured for such. But imagine phoning up your insurance and telling them, 'Look the tires on my car are bald, it's unsafe, will you replace them for me before it causes a big accident?'"

Both cases, owners responsibility to act.

Northwind
 
Yet insurance co's regularly demand tree work to clear a building or roof with the threat of canceling the policy. We've done several jobs like that around here.
 
Yeah this kind of the way that I was thinking. I just thought it would be kinda cool to have the insurance companies helping to push proper arboriculture. In other words, as unfortunate for someone as it would be, lets say the situation above where the oak fell on the car. OK, the oak has been topped several times, so the insurance company fails to pay. They say that the tree was weakened by an improper practice that caused the condition. Granted, I realize that there are variables that can change the deciding factor. It would be nice to have another avenue to educate the public on proper practices.
 
treehumper,

Are you finding these requests unreasonable?

If the insurance company found, say, a fireplace chimney clogged with years of buildup, an imminent firehazard, would you consider a demand to clean the chimney different?

Substantard boilers, botched rewiring, a rotted front porch, all the same. If you want insurance, you have to bring it up to a standard worth insuring.

I've done work for property management companies whose insurance requires the trees to be thus and so. Sometimes that means a harsh prune to the limit of what I would consider acceptable, after that I write a report for a removal with a replanting.

What is really worthwile is to travel back with the insurance rep to their offices, and find their own tree control program lacking! Quite worthwhile, indeed.

Northwind
 
stubcut,

Not wishing to puncture your balloon so harshly, but the insurance industry simply does not concern itself with taking on preventative measures, that is the owners responsibility.

Imagine how many potential failure trades they might consider promoting: Roofing, Masonry, Pools, Electrical, Renovations, the list could go on and on.

It's not their business. You get it right, they will insure you, stand behind it. You get it wrong, not their problem.

Northwind
 
Right on. It would be great to think that we could get the political clout or power of the insurance industry behind us. But you know if you think about, do we really want to fall under the conditions of the skilled trades, ie. plumbers, electricians, etc? There are inspectors who monitor their work, pass or fail, and so on. That would be a nightmare to think of the headaches that come with the worry of a government employee passing or failing your work.

I hate the thoughts of someone trying to get something for nothing or trying to bleed the system. I deal with that kind of stuff on a regular basis as I'm sure we all do to one degree or another. I think in this particular case, I was trying to do the right thing for this guy and give another guy some business. It kinda rubbed me wrong that this was trying to work an angle to be a cheapskate. There's no wonder why premiums are so high and lawyers are so plentiful.
 
Darn- I was hoping this would be a thread about forming some sort of "tree workers union" so that we could all get better rates on our own insurance!

The ISA can't do it...maybe the treebuzz can?

love
nick
 

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