Lol I didn't know he was trying to bid jobs and run saws in trees!!. I know I gave encouragement but that was only for him to study and seek professional guidance. I agree with jimmy, and jimmys really not even being harsh...go into the awakenings thread and read everything. Take your time and take everything he said into consideration. You must master the ground and the saws before bringing them aloft. I think I worked the ground for about 5-7 years for a cpl different company's before I took on climbing. I remember having mastered the ground saw work and then feeling I had mastered running ropes (ropeman) before I ever took a saw up into a tree. I had done cpl rec climbs and bs crane rides to set chokers, bucket cuts and maybe a cpl trims that were very simple in those 5-7 years before I took saws aloft. Good post jim
I was wrong: TM manual was there :(
- Thread starter LordFarkwad
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LordFarkwad
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Thanks for the directness, Jimmy. Can't say that I'll be hitting 'like' on it, but I do appreciate you stating plainly how you feel/think, and if there are others that feel the same, I wouldn't mind them saying so either.
To address a couple of your points, and get some facts straight...
I've cut nothing with a saw while climbing a tree. I've only stuck a power head from a 362cm on a harness to feel how heavy it is.
Where are you seeing me talk about bidding jobs? I've done ground work only for people local to me.
I think this came up a while back in the thread, but I am asking questions whose answers might be considered almost 'common sense' to some, simply because thinking that all the pertinent facts are 'obvious' is an indefinite dangerous situation to be in when the steaks are high, as they are with this activity. It can be ignorance, and it usually is hubris to think otherwise.
To address a couple of your points, and get some facts straight...
I've cut nothing with a saw while climbing a tree. I've only stuck a power head from a 362cm on a harness to feel how heavy it is.
Where are you seeing me talk about bidding jobs? I've done ground work only for people local to me.
I think this came up a while back in the thread, but I am asking questions whose answers might be considered almost 'common sense' to some, simply because thinking that all the pertinent facts are 'obvious' is an indefinite dangerous situation to be in when the steaks are high, as they are with this activity. It can be ignorance, and it usually is hubris to think otherwise.
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LordFarkwad
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Again, I'm not taking saws up. Power head only for feeling what the weight was like.
Good grief, guys.
LordFarkwad
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15kg weight rating on the CT, Jim. I'd just rather have more margin. I'm sure lots of folks use that and are fine. I probably would be, with all likelihood, 99.9%. But why is design margin a bad thing? That's what the comment about using the others instead was about. edit: take a little 2:1 fall (saw stops on half the distance it accelerates in freefall)...15lbs becomes 30lbs right there, whether the initial acceleration distance was 2" or 2'.
Not upset at all. Just trying to get the facts straight here. I appreciate yours, Jim's, and everyone else's feedback. And, as to Jim's post, I really appreciate that too, because the fact is, I may not even be asking the right questions.
I really am interested in what I said about bidding jobs. I can tell you they weren't climbing jobs, if I was bidding on them. So, I'm not sure. Was I speaking philosophically about bidding jobs, or something more along those lines?
And, I don't know if Jim is prone to speak in hyperbole, but no one can figure out 'the limits of' the Caritool 'just by looking at' it. Come on, man. If that was the case, manufacturers of reputable equipment wouldn't have to send out warnings telling people how to visually inspect their equipment to ensure it isn't Chinese knockoff with a tenth the weight rating, etc etc.
That goes back to not assuming I know it all. Dangerous place to find oneself in.
Just trying to address some of this...
Not upset at all. Just trying to get the facts straight here. I appreciate yours, Jim's, and everyone else's feedback. And, as to Jim's post, I really appreciate that too, because the fact is, I may not even be asking the right questions.
I really am interested in what I said about bidding jobs. I can tell you they weren't climbing jobs, if I was bidding on them. So, I'm not sure. Was I speaking philosophically about bidding jobs, or something more along those lines?
And, I don't know if Jim is prone to speak in hyperbole, but no one can figure out 'the limits of' the Caritool 'just by looking at' it. Come on, man. If that was the case, manufacturers of reputable equipment wouldn't have to send out warnings telling people how to visually inspect their equipment to ensure it isn't Chinese knockoff with a tenth the weight rating, etc etc.
That goes back to not assuming I know it all. Dangerous place to find oneself in.
Just trying to address some of this...
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LordFarkwad
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Actually, most people with a "Well-known member" yeah next to their names have been incredibly encouraging, J. If they all feel as you do, I wish they would speak up.
Something that flat isn't going to happen, because I have a good paying day job and too little surplus hours to add a part time job, is working for a tree company. I've reached out to several around, offering to pay for a couple hours of their time for tips, pointers, help, etc., and have so far come up dry. I will keep on this approach until I get a hit, someone willing to offer a few hours. I will even ask if I can come out and observe a weekend job, as someone here suggested.
Something that flat isn't going to happen, because I have a good paying day job and too little surplus hours to add a part time job, is working for a tree company. I've reached out to several around, offering to pay for a couple hours of their time for tips, pointers, help, etc., and have so far come up dry. I will keep on this approach until I get a hit, someone willing to offer a few hours. I will even ask if I can come out and observe a weekend job, as someone here suggested.
I use the Climb Right carabiner for side attachments, including saws. It worked well on the TM when I was using one. All my saws will have a tether that gets attached to something else besides what the saw is hanging from. That way, if you were using a plastic clip, it would just be an annoyance if it broke, but you would still have your saw.
I can appreciate Jimmy's post. The point's made were good ones. It is not how those of us that started in this industry 50 years ago learned. We learned by doing. There was no internet, no one to lead the way. Two skills that can't be taught are precise analytical thinking and physical aptitude. All the climbers from that time had abundant physical skill. We were tree climbers first and foremost, using ropes to keep us safe. That is not how things work anymore. Tree climbers are now rope climbers and gear dependent. That does change things, as much of what we now use takes a specific knowledge that is far from intuitive.
You have been notified of hidden dangers that may not have entered your thoughts. I am not going to judge. No one knows what you are capable of better than yourself. Stay within those boundaries. Keep learning.
I can appreciate Jimmy's post. The point's made were good ones. It is not how those of us that started in this industry 50 years ago learned. We learned by doing. There was no internet, no one to lead the way. Two skills that can't be taught are precise analytical thinking and physical aptitude. All the climbers from that time had abundant physical skill. We were tree climbers first and foremost, using ropes to keep us safe. That is not how things work anymore. Tree climbers are now rope climbers and gear dependent. That does change things, as much of what we now use takes a specific knowledge that is far from intuitive.
You have been notified of hidden dangers that may not have entered your thoughts. I am not going to judge. No one knows what you are capable of better than yourself. Stay within those boundaries. Keep learning.
LordFarkwad
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- Chatham Co.
Are you familiar with the phrase "straw man"? You're killing it, Jim.
I'm trying to figure out who exactly you are talking to with some of these comments. Take the following, for example...
Maybe you are simply covering your bases or something, but where have I indicated I'm ready for 'primetime', whatever that means? I'm in the process of learning. Never have indicated any different. I go out a few times a week and practice climbing with all this equipment that's new to me.
Again, man, where have I said something even approximating this? Physically hard? Sure, like anything technique-based, if you do it wrong, you waste copious amounts of energy. But I've read on this very forum where others much more experienced have come to similar conclusions. E.g., flipping a steel core and a rope lanyard/FL up the tree simultaneously. Or advancing a choked means of attachment along with a flipline or lanyard, it being a real pain. What do you want me to do, dude?
I see the image you are attempting to build by summarizing my spur comments as, "my spurs aren't working" but seriously...if there weren't tips and tricks for using all of this equipment in ways that makes it safer and easier, then there wouldn't be a "tips and tricks thread", hundreds of YouTube videos with similar content, etc., etc. So chill out with the nut-shelling to paint a picture.
And, besides all that, yes, allot of my questions were basic. But, man, there are only so many options for a willing individual to learn. There are better ways than reading, videos, asking questions via text, but... that's what I have at the moment. Plus practice and safe experimentation.
I don't know exactly what you want, except for me getting a job with a tree company.
Man, why don't we just have a talk on the phone? You willing to do that?
I'm trying to figure out who exactly you are talking to with some of these comments. Take the following, for example...
Maybe you are simply covering your bases or something, but where have I indicated I'm ready for 'primetime', whatever that means? I'm in the process of learning. Never have indicated any different. I go out a few times a week and practice climbing with all this equipment that's new to me.
Again, man, where have I said something even approximating this? Physically hard? Sure, like anything technique-based, if you do it wrong, you waste copious amounts of energy. But I've read on this very forum where others much more experienced have come to similar conclusions. E.g., flipping a steel core and a rope lanyard/FL up the tree simultaneously. Or advancing a choked means of attachment along with a flipline or lanyard, it being a real pain. What do you want me to do, dude?
I see the image you are attempting to build by summarizing my spur comments as, "my spurs aren't working" but seriously...if there weren't tips and tricks for using all of this equipment in ways that makes it safer and easier, then there wouldn't be a "tips and tricks thread", hundreds of YouTube videos with similar content, etc., etc. So chill out with the nut-shelling to paint a picture.
And, besides all that, yes, allot of my questions were basic. But, man, there are only so many options for a willing individual to learn. There are better ways than reading, videos, asking questions via text, but... that's what I have at the moment. Plus practice and safe experimentation.
I don't know exactly what you want, except for me getting a job with a tree company.
Man, why don't we just have a talk on the phone? You willing to do that?
LordFarkwad
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- Chatham Co.
This is exactly the kind of thing I welcome with open arms. I can't and won't think of everything, and definitely won't think of anything compared to the guys out there with experience and wisdom.
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LordFarkwad
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Man, it's a good Sunday afternoon to go practice climbing, but since @Jimmycrackcorn said I'm in over my head, I guess I should sit on the couch and stick to crotcheting. Not smart enuf to figger this stuff out without going to the school of hard knocks and spending 20yrs almost killing myself like a real man 
Jajajaja
Jajajaja
samsquatch
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Chill out dude. Take everything a little slower, you'll want to be sure you're crossing the Ts and dotting the Is when your life is hanging from 11mms of synthetic fiber and you're flailing around a sharpened saw.
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