- Location
- Milwaukee, WI
I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend *DELETED*
Post deleted by mattwisconsin
Post deleted by mattwisconsin
I climbed a 210' douglasfir this weekend *DELETED*
- Thread starter mattwisconsin
- Start date
treewill
Participating member
- Location
- Everywhere and nowhere
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
Dude if I were you I would be careful about posting photos of this sort of thing for everyone to see. It is against NPS rules to climb trees within national park boundaries except in a very few instances.
Sorry to be such a killjoy, but this sort of thing makes it really difficult for those of us that live in the PNW and try to work in support of our public lands officials. We try and try to convince them that we are good guys who will respect their rules, but often they have an image of roving hordes of crossbow-wielding ninja climbers in their heads.
Please folks, if you are considering climbing trees on public lands, always contact the land managers first. If tree climbers don't show respect for public land stewards, they won't show respect for us.
Dude if I were you I would be careful about posting photos of this sort of thing for everyone to see. It is against NPS rules to climb trees within national park boundaries except in a very few instances.
Sorry to be such a killjoy, but this sort of thing makes it really difficult for those of us that live in the PNW and try to work in support of our public lands officials. We try and try to convince them that we are good guys who will respect their rules, but often they have an image of roving hordes of crossbow-wielding ninja climbers in their heads.
Please folks, if you are considering climbing trees on public lands, always contact the land managers first. If tree climbers don't show respect for public land stewards, they won't show respect for us.
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
Congrats on your big climb Matt!
How close to the top did you go?
Nice pic too.
Jomoco
Congrats on your big climb Matt!
How close to the top did you go?
Nice pic too.
Jomoco
RyanCafferky
Been here a while
- Location
- Hood River, Oregon
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
There are plenty of trees in the northwest out of NPS land to climb.
Personally, if I am being discrete and selective about where I climb I'm not going to talk to any land managers about it. But I'm also probably not going to post pictures online with descriptions of where I was. The National Forest Service is just there to help log, mine, and extract other resources from the land. As long as you don't endanger yourself, anyone else, damage the ecosystem or disturb endangered wildlife, or disrupt the resource extraction activities they won't really care about you dangling your a$$ off of a tree. Unless you do something stupid and get on the news and all of a sudden someone has more paperwork to do. Then they will care and rules will come down the line. Personally I think the key is to avoid repeated impact to areas because the trees and the forest floor around them take a beating quickly and recovery is slow at best. I also think it is really important to avoid climbing the biggest trees. Especially repeatedly or with inexperienced climbers because of inadvertant damage to lichens and foliage.
Climbing big trees (especially ancient conifers) does nothing for the trees but harm them and boost our egos. That is the most important thing to remember. What is Ascending the Giants or any of us really doing for the trees they climb recreationally? We are impacting them. If we are truly honest about our intentions it comes back to ego. We should work tirelessly to preserve these trees at all costs but it is more important to have a picture of us in a big tree to put on our Facebook page.
Unless someone who is exposed to pictures or movies from an old growth tree or someone who has climbed an old growth tree is inspired to dedicate their life to preserving those trees at all costs then what is the point if not just self gratification and ego?
Ok. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
There are plenty of trees in the northwest out of NPS land to climb.
Personally, if I am being discrete and selective about where I climb I'm not going to talk to any land managers about it. But I'm also probably not going to post pictures online with descriptions of where I was. The National Forest Service is just there to help log, mine, and extract other resources from the land. As long as you don't endanger yourself, anyone else, damage the ecosystem or disturb endangered wildlife, or disrupt the resource extraction activities they won't really care about you dangling your a$$ off of a tree. Unless you do something stupid and get on the news and all of a sudden someone has more paperwork to do. Then they will care and rules will come down the line. Personally I think the key is to avoid repeated impact to areas because the trees and the forest floor around them take a beating quickly and recovery is slow at best. I also think it is really important to avoid climbing the biggest trees. Especially repeatedly or with inexperienced climbers because of inadvertant damage to lichens and foliage.
Climbing big trees (especially ancient conifers) does nothing for the trees but harm them and boost our egos. That is the most important thing to remember. What is Ascending the Giants or any of us really doing for the trees they climb recreationally? We are impacting them. If we are truly honest about our intentions it comes back to ego. We should work tirelessly to preserve these trees at all costs but it is more important to have a picture of us in a big tree to put on our Facebook page.
Unless someone who is exposed to pictures or movies from an old growth tree or someone who has climbed an old growth tree is inspired to dedicate their life to preserving those trees at all costs then what is the point if not just self gratification and ego?
Ok. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
- Location
- Western Montana, USA
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
Does anybody know if there is documented proof of serious damage or death to a big tree from it being recreationally climbed by professionals? If so, please share.
Does anybody know if there is documented proof of serious damage or death to a big tree from it being recreationally climbed by professionals? If so, please share.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know if there is documented proof of serious damage or death to a big tree from it being recreationally climbed by professionals? If so, please share.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the fear is that climbers will target the record holding tallest or largest conifers per species in the PNW, the result being ground compaction in the root zone as well as general destruction of the understory/ground cover through foot traffic. Depending on how careful or not careful climbers are there could be significant damage to canopy epiphytes over many repeat climbs. Any time a climber sets a rope stuff gets knocked down. Any time a climber is on a tree, no matter how careful they are stuff gets knocked down. There is international pressure to find and climb for example the tallest known coast redwood Hyperion. If 100 climbers a year went to that tree over a fifteen year period there would be significant impacts on the tree and ground around it.
Good idea to stay out of national parks, no point in it, rangers have enough problems as it is without another wildcard. National forest or BLM lands? Another matter. Be low impact, leave no trace, be a good steward of the trees and forest.
In the northeast U.S. where I live there is very little or no legal access to climb forest trees on public land. I climb in the woods regularly therefore I don't post location info with my climb reports or photos. This takes some pressure off public land managers since they don't know where I'm climbing and no one can really challenge them to do something about it if there's no specific location involved. Be smart, low impact, don't make a public nuisance of yourself, respect law enforcement (ie: obey their requests if you happen to meet in the woods) it's all good.
Just my opinion. I think its extreme to say (as some canopy scientists maintain) that capable and respectful climbers shouldn't climb old-growth. With good judgement and abandonment of "I want to climb the tallest tree" ambitions it should be workable.
-AJ
[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know if there is documented proof of serious damage or death to a big tree from it being recreationally climbed by professionals? If so, please share.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the fear is that climbers will target the record holding tallest or largest conifers per species in the PNW, the result being ground compaction in the root zone as well as general destruction of the understory/ground cover through foot traffic. Depending on how careful or not careful climbers are there could be significant damage to canopy epiphytes over many repeat climbs. Any time a climber sets a rope stuff gets knocked down. Any time a climber is on a tree, no matter how careful they are stuff gets knocked down. There is international pressure to find and climb for example the tallest known coast redwood Hyperion. If 100 climbers a year went to that tree over a fifteen year period there would be significant impacts on the tree and ground around it.
Good idea to stay out of national parks, no point in it, rangers have enough problems as it is without another wildcard. National forest or BLM lands? Another matter. Be low impact, leave no trace, be a good steward of the trees and forest.
In the northeast U.S. where I live there is very little or no legal access to climb forest trees on public land. I climb in the woods regularly therefore I don't post location info with my climb reports or photos. This takes some pressure off public land managers since they don't know where I'm climbing and no one can really challenge them to do something about it if there's no specific location involved. Be smart, low impact, don't make a public nuisance of yourself, respect law enforcement (ie: obey their requests if you happen to meet in the woods) it's all good.
Just my opinion. I think its extreme to say (as some canopy scientists maintain) that capable and respectful climbers shouldn't climb old-growth. With good judgement and abandonment of "I want to climb the tallest tree" ambitions it should be workable.
-AJ
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
[ QUOTE ]
There are plenty of trees in the northwest out of NPS land to climb.
[/ QUOTE ]
Key concept!
-AJ
[ QUOTE ]
There are plenty of trees in the northwest out of NPS land to climb.
[/ QUOTE ]
Key concept!
-AJ
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
[ QUOTE ]
Unless someone who is exposed to pictures or movies from an old growth tree or someone who has climbed an old growth tree is inspired to dedicate their life to preserving those trees at all costs then what is the point if not just self gratification and ego?
[/ QUOTE ]
Raising the bar a little high. Responsible forest climbers can be a positive force connecting people to nature and inspiring others. Being responsible and ethical is the key. Seeking challenge and serious adventure in nature does not have to be all ego and self-gratification. In fact those coming only from that perspective are the ones most likely to endanger themselves or others in the woods.
-AJ
[ QUOTE ]
Unless someone who is exposed to pictures or movies from an old growth tree or someone who has climbed an old growth tree is inspired to dedicate their life to preserving those trees at all costs then what is the point if not just self gratification and ego?
[/ QUOTE ]
Raising the bar a little high. Responsible forest climbers can be a positive force connecting people to nature and inspiring others. Being responsible and ethical is the key. Seeking challenge and serious adventure in nature does not have to be all ego and self-gratification. In fact those coming only from that perspective are the ones most likely to endanger themselves or others in the woods.
-AJ
- Location
- Victoria, BC
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
Well said Ryan
Well said Ryan
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know if there is documented proof of serious damage or death to a big tree from it being recreationally climbed by professionals? If so, please share.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have seen pretty serious damage done to a tree by repeated climbing. The tree that comes to mind is a Canada hemlock that we install a large christmas decoration in every year. I dont know how long these lights have been put in the tree but the top of all of the branches have been stripped of thier bark just from the climbers stepping on the branch over time. There are several key branches that assist us in getting to where we need to go and those branches are the worst. Calus can be seen froming around the wounds, but it keeps getting pushed back by the climbers.
The only time we normally climb this tree is in late october to early January for installation, repair and removal of the lights. Unfortunately for the tree the decoration is really cool and many people love it.
I have not documented the damage because I dont know how long it has taken to form. Also there are other stress factors that may play a part in it, like sun exposure and insect problems. But none the less everytime I step on those branches I wonder, how many feet have steped in this very spot on this very branch over the years?
[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know if there is documented proof of serious damage or death to a big tree from it being recreationally climbed by professionals? If so, please share.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have seen pretty serious damage done to a tree by repeated climbing. The tree that comes to mind is a Canada hemlock that we install a large christmas decoration in every year. I dont know how long these lights have been put in the tree but the top of all of the branches have been stripped of thier bark just from the climbers stepping on the branch over time. There are several key branches that assist us in getting to where we need to go and those branches are the worst. Calus can be seen froming around the wounds, but it keeps getting pushed back by the climbers.
The only time we normally climb this tree is in late october to early January for installation, repair and removal of the lights. Unfortunately for the tree the decoration is really cool and many people love it.
I have not documented the damage because I dont know how long it has taken to form. Also there are other stress factors that may play a part in it, like sun exposure and insect problems. But none the less everytime I step on those branches I wonder, how many feet have steped in this very spot on this very branch over the years?
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
[ QUOTE ]
There are plenty of trees in the northwest out of NPS land to climb.
Personally, if I am being discrete and selective about where I climb I'm not going to talk to any land managers about it. But I'm also probably not going to post pictures online with descriptions of where I was. The National Forest Service is just there to help log, mine, and extract other resources from the land. As long as you don't endanger yourself, anyone else, damage the ecosystem or disturb endangered wildlife, or disrupt the resource extraction activities they won't really care about you dangling your a$$ off of a tree. Unless you do something stupid and get on the news and all of a sudden someone has more paperwork to do. Then they will care and rules will come down the line. Personally I think the key is to avoid repeated impact to areas because the trees and the forest floor around them take a beating quickly and recovery is slow at best. I also think it is really important to avoid climbing the biggest trees. Especially repeatedly or with inexperienced climbers because of inadvertant damage to lichens and foliage.
Climbing big trees (especially ancient conifers) does nothing for the trees but harm them and boost our egos. That is the most important thing to remember. What is Ascending the Giants or any of us really doing for the trees they climb recreationally? We are impacting them. If we are truly honest about our intentions it comes back to ego. We should work tirelessly to preserve these trees at all costs but it is more important to have a picture of us in a big tree to put on our Facebook page.
Unless someone who is exposed to pictures or movies from an old growth tree or someone who has climbed an old growth tree is inspired to dedicate their life to preserving those trees at all costs then what is the point if not just self gratification and ego?
Ok. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
[/ QUOTE ]
After reading your post Ryan, something about it bugged me. I guess it was your condescending references towards ego driving us to do things, silly things, damaging things.
So I ask you, why does a climber compete in TCC's? Why does a formula one driver risk his and others lives to be first across the finish line? Why do actors covet the limelight and Oscar awards? Why did Columbus cross the Atlantic?
Because it is an integral facet of human nature to distinguish ourselves, do what others find terrifying, go to the moon, win the super bowl, world series, etc.
Quite literally to show off, win the admiration and respect of our peers, to place pictures and trophies of our triumphs and brief moments of glory on the walls of our homes for family and visitors to see.
Ego can be a good thing if not taken too far, and like all things, indulged in with moderation and careful forethought lest we appear pompous fools driven only by egos alone.
Even trees themselves struggle and compete to be the tallest tree in the forest, despite stealing life giving sunlight from those of its own species struggling below them.
We can no more deny our nature than a leopard can change its spots.
Just my opinion that all things should be indulged in with moderation, even our own egos. Good balance keeps us from falling to earth prematurely.
Jomoco
[ QUOTE ]
There are plenty of trees in the northwest out of NPS land to climb.
Personally, if I am being discrete and selective about where I climb I'm not going to talk to any land managers about it. But I'm also probably not going to post pictures online with descriptions of where I was. The National Forest Service is just there to help log, mine, and extract other resources from the land. As long as you don't endanger yourself, anyone else, damage the ecosystem or disturb endangered wildlife, or disrupt the resource extraction activities they won't really care about you dangling your a$$ off of a tree. Unless you do something stupid and get on the news and all of a sudden someone has more paperwork to do. Then they will care and rules will come down the line. Personally I think the key is to avoid repeated impact to areas because the trees and the forest floor around them take a beating quickly and recovery is slow at best. I also think it is really important to avoid climbing the biggest trees. Especially repeatedly or with inexperienced climbers because of inadvertant damage to lichens and foliage.
Climbing big trees (especially ancient conifers) does nothing for the trees but harm them and boost our egos. That is the most important thing to remember. What is Ascending the Giants or any of us really doing for the trees they climb recreationally? We are impacting them. If we are truly honest about our intentions it comes back to ego. We should work tirelessly to preserve these trees at all costs but it is more important to have a picture of us in a big tree to put on our Facebook page.
Unless someone who is exposed to pictures or movies from an old growth tree or someone who has climbed an old growth tree is inspired to dedicate their life to preserving those trees at all costs then what is the point if not just self gratification and ego?
Ok. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
[/ QUOTE ]
After reading your post Ryan, something about it bugged me. I guess it was your condescending references towards ego driving us to do things, silly things, damaging things.
So I ask you, why does a climber compete in TCC's? Why does a formula one driver risk his and others lives to be first across the finish line? Why do actors covet the limelight and Oscar awards? Why did Columbus cross the Atlantic?
Because it is an integral facet of human nature to distinguish ourselves, do what others find terrifying, go to the moon, win the super bowl, world series, etc.
Quite literally to show off, win the admiration and respect of our peers, to place pictures and trophies of our triumphs and brief moments of glory on the walls of our homes for family and visitors to see.
Ego can be a good thing if not taken too far, and like all things, indulged in with moderation and careful forethought lest we appear pompous fools driven only by egos alone.
Even trees themselves struggle and compete to be the tallest tree in the forest, despite stealing life giving sunlight from those of its own species struggling below them.
We can no more deny our nature than a leopard can change its spots.
Just my opinion that all things should be indulged in with moderation, even our own egos. Good balance keeps us from falling to earth prematurely.
Jomoco
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Re: I climbed a 210\' douglasfir this weekend
Great discussion, like what I'm reading, rounds out the whole picture, gets at reasons why we do what we do, pushing the limits, keeping balance, all good.
-AJ
Great discussion, like what I'm reading, rounds out the whole picture, gets at reasons why we do what we do, pushing the limits, keeping balance, all good.
-AJ
