Hydrophobic soil

[data farm 26]

Do you know anything about it? I've been digging lots of holes for tree planting, it seems like the soil is so dry it repels water. We are in "exceptional extreme drought." Have any of you observed similar conditions?

 

[southsoundtree]

Idk the details.


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[MA Arborist]

Do you know anything about it? I've been digging lots of holes for tree planting, it seems like the soil is so dry it repels water. We are in "exceptional extreme drought." Have any of you observed similar conditions?

I’ve definitely seen this in my area. We have had on and off drought conditions since 2014.

A few years back, the soil stayed parched through the fall and winter even after higher than normal precipitation

 

[Reach]

Clay based soil is especially prone to baking itself dry like that, where it is very difficult to saturated again. It takes a very slow trickle of water to get it to absorb anything at all.

 

[Chris Schultz]

My experience at my house this season was the first waterings seemed like it was beading up and sheet draining off the crusty/hard soil surface…. Eventually, second time around there would be some decent soil penetration achieved, it just took some patience…. Slow and low flow is key. It’s gotten better over the last few weeks, as we’ve seen some wet snow/rain events, which has “conditioned” the soil. This season seems like a bad year to be planting trees in Colorado, especially the front range (if that’s where your still @?). My water supply is spring fed, so I’m not paying for municipal water. Up here the water district is completely bending people over, over their water consumption. Is that also the case down there?

 

[Njdelaney]

@data farm 26 where are you located?

 

[Evo]

I’ve worked hydrophobic soils a bit. Fun fact ivy makes soils hydrophobic..
slow slow watering is the fix, consider pre mulching with 4-5” of chips and sprinkling slowly for a day a week before digging your holes and planting

 

[data farm 26]

@data farm 26 where are you located?

In the Denver area.

 

[data farm 26]

My experience at my house this season was the first waterings seemed like it was beading up and sheet draining off the crusty/hard soil surface…. Eventually, second time around there would be some decent soil penetration achieved, it just took some patience…. Slow and low flow is key. It’s gotten better over the last few weeks, as we’ve seen some wet snow/rain events, which has “conditioned” the soil. This season seems like a bad year to be planting trees in Colorado, especially the front range (if that’s where your still @?). My water supply is spring fed, so I’m not paying for municipal water. Up here the water district is completely bending people over, over their water consumption. Is that also the case down there?

The water thing is going to be interesting down here, yes it's already rising tension a bit with some districts! I completely agree about not planting now but this is a muni project set in motion that cannot be stopped.

 

[data farm 26]

ivy makes soils hydrophobic

Interesting. Not surprising though. After thinking about it for awhile, I think it's more common than people think in my area.

 

[Chris Schultz]

The water thing is going to be interesting down here, yes it's already rising tension a bit with some districts! I completely agree about not planting now but this is a muni project set in motion that cannot be stopped.

Nothing says peak government efficiency like launching a municipal tree planting project during historical drought conditions and pretending water logistics are just a future problem….. Bureaucracy really excels at spending taxpayer money to fight basic environmental reality.

 

[data farm 26]

Trust me, if I had better options right now I would bail on this project! I agree 100 though, so ridiculous.

 

[Chris Schultz]

It frustrates me to no end watching mountain communities and watersheds shoulder the burden so downstream municipalities can keep pushing unsustainable growth while watering decorative landscapes like water scarcity doesn’t exist. A lot of us living near the source see firsthand what’s at stake — stressed forests, river health completely fucked, and local resources bled dry. At some point, common sense water management needs to matter more than endless expansion and appearances.

 

[data farm 26]

I think the front range is in for a reckoning big time this summer. Hopefully it sends some people back to the midwest and east coast lol. Although, supposedly a 'super el nino' might be forming so it could be floods and landslides in the fall, after the fires that is.

 

[data farm 26]

It frustrates me to no end watching mountain communities and watersheds shoulder the burden so downstream municipalities can keep pushing unsustainable growth while watering decorative landscapes like water scarcity doesn’t exist. A lot of us living near the source see firsthand what’s at stake — stressed forests, river health completely fucked, and local resources bled dry. At some point, common sense water management needs to matter more than endless expansion and appearances.

One thing I have heard about water on the east side of the rockies is that a majority of it is used for cattle operations, and growing food for cows. Apparently residential water use doesn't account for much in comparison.

 

[Chris Schultz]

One thing I have heard about water on the east side of the rockies is that a majority of it is used for cattle operations, and growing food for cows. Apparently residential water use doesn't account for much in comparison.

Honestly, this is the first time I’ve heard of that narrative. Calling it “beef farming” feels like a pretty convenient way to gloss over the reality that a lot of this water is diverted for expanding Front Range municipal demand. Sounds a lot more palatable than admitting mountain water is heavily tapped to support continued urban growth, development, and landscaping. The major reservoirs/diversions around me capture and send water to Aurora, city of Denver, and Colorado Springs. I go east of the tunnels maybe twice a year, usually never further than DIA, and have never seen a cattle farm, or a hay production operation... saying it’s primarily captured for beef farming is, at best, oversimplified and very misleading.

 

[southsoundtree]

Side note: I soak my mulch in the wheelbarrow when planting if it's dry.

 

[data farm 26]

Honestly, this is the first time I’ve heard of that narrative. Calling it “beef farming” feels like a pretty convenient way to gloss over the reality that a lot of this water is diverted for expanding Front Range municipal demand. Sounds a lot more palatable than admitting mountain water is heavily tapped to support continued urban growth, development, and landscaping. The major reservoirs/diversions around me capture and send water to Aurora, city of Denver, and Colorado Springs. I go east of the tunnels maybe twice a year, usually never further than DIA, and have never seen a cattle farm, or a hay production operation... saying it’s primarily captured for beef farming is, at best, oversimplified and very misleading.

Water Uses | Colorado Water Knowledge | Colorado State University

waterknowledge.colostate.edu

Where the water goes and what it is used for is pretty well accounted for.

I didn't say 'beef farming' lol, I love steaks and burgers too but no way to avoid the truth, it takes hella water for them cows. The beef lobby just wants people to feel bad about brushing their teeth or using a courtesy flush.

There is a lot of land out the East of the airport, and plenty farmed between there and the rockies too. Have you been to NE Colorado? Greely? There's like 50 million cows up there. And to top it off, a ton of the water they use is lost to leaky pipes.

I know people love to rage against lawns in denver, I don't like them much either for various reasons. But its just a drop in the bucket comparatively.

 

[data farm 26]

Side note: I soak my mulch in the wheelbarrow when planting if it's dry.

I like that. Mulch can be pretty hydrophobic as well, from my observations.

 

[Matias]

Even highly organic soils can become hydrophobic if they are allowed to fully dry out. It bears repeating that slooooow water is the way to restore moisture efficiently.