How to Get Power from a Pulley

That is an interesting way to think of it, but that isn't exactly true. before I understood how pulleys work to create MA, I was just adding in more and more redirects, and gaining zero MA. The key to making power is in the pulleys that are moving. If you don't have a pulley/block on the thing that is supposed to move, you are simply using the pulley as a redirect. The thing to be moved can function as a low efficiency block if the rope can move around it, but as mentioned by Evo, the friction costs you a lot of your MA, so if you lose half of your power to friction on a 2:1, it is still pretty pointless. You only count the legs of rope that are acting on the moving object.

It's very similar to how levers work, IMO.

Consider the length of rope pulled Vs. load moved.

Friction is a factor of course.

The math is quite similar to how a floor jack works.

It's all about the ratio.
 
Another aspect to consider is the definition of a vector: A quantity with magnitude and direction. Force is a vector quantity. Pulling a rope around a pulley doesn’t change the magnitude, but it does alter the direction. If the change in direction is 180 degrees, you go from +1 to -1 for the component calculation. What do you know, that’s a difference of 2. Think about a spring with a weight (W) hanging from it. To alleviate the tension in the spring you have to apply an upward force equal to the weight. If you keep pushing up so the spring becomes compressed with a force equal to the hanging weight (W again,) you have to apply another W worth of force, so 2W to go from tension to an equal compression. Different scenarios, same principle.
 
If a pulley is a rotary lever, then increasing the sheave diameter doesn't increase the leverage because both the input side and the output side of the lever are always equal in size, equal to the radius of the pulley. It is a seesaw lever, with both sides equal on either side of the fulcrum. The pulley is always kept in it's own category of classical simple machines (lever, wheel and axle, pulley, inclined plane, wedge, screw). It's not a lever in the traditional sense, but when you use a large diameter pulley it does give the feel of traditional "leverage".
Exactly
 
Brain scratch: if you keep adding pulleys does your mechanical advantage keep on increasing as expected? hint - the answer is out there (Sculley and Mulder sound byte)
 
Matias, how not to's video was entertaining but grabbed straws for an answer (WTF!:))

I think mixing in transient loads with only peak-hold meters is muddying up the waters. The answer is still out there.
 
... I think mixing in transient loads with only peak-hold meters is muddying up the waters. The answer is still out there.

Could you please expound on this a bit. Do the peak-hold meters not accurately record a transient loading? I know I'm missing something here.
 
Matias, how not to's video was entertaining but grabbed straws for an answer (WTF!:))

I think mixing in transient loads with only peak-hold meters is muddying up the waters. The answer is still out there.
So, I rewatched to make sure I had referenced the right video, and I am curious how the two measurements would be super different. I feel like friction is still the monster that must be overcome, and that after a certain point, the only way to meaningfully add MA is to build compound systems. I suppose that technically, that does mean that one can add MA with more pulleys, up to the limits of certain key elements, but if rhe question was about adding pulleys within a single system, I am curious what other answers there are. this is certainly one of my favorite subjects, so I am keen for more folks to answer, as well as to hear what you have to say on the subject.
 
When I did my base tied SRT tip loading research an observation was that a pulley is a sucky bollard and a bollard (eg biner) is a sucky pulley also eg SRT branch crotch/tip.

The first observation was that the pulley bearing/bushing friction and rope bending friction wasn't a constant you subtract off. Instead, across every trial the rope tension going in and coming out were always in a constant ratio whether large or small magnitudes. Thus the term tension ratio was born. All that testing was doing a 180 degree rope U turn around the "item". A neat observation was that for the SRT tip (and other items) you're ie hoisting the pull side is higher than the object side as you hoist. Then as you slow down and stop they (can) become equal. As you continue and release some rope at first the rope doesn't move on the tip (item) because the friction holds it still until you lower it so far you exceed the reversed tension ratio - then the object side is higher and your tugging side is lower. The tension ratio reverses as you lower. This applies to pulleys. Typical tension ratio is 1.1 to 1.2. There's a crap pile of items with their tension ratios tabulated in that thread.

So you can see how bouncing around with limited data sampling rate combined with the no man's land of indeterminate tensions as the pulley is possibly stopped and not rotating in a consistent direction will eff up. Big mess in a multi pulley system. That's where his wtf us coming from.

Any guesses where the answer is out there?
 
When I did my base tied SRT tip loading research an observation was that a pulley is a sucky bollard and a bollard (eg biner) is a sucky pulley also eg SRT branch crotch/tip.

The first observation was that the pulley bearing/bushing friction and rope bending friction wasn't a constant you subtract off. Instead, across every trial the rope tension going in and coming out were always in a constant ratio whether large or small magnitudes. Thus the term tension ratio was born. All that testing was doing a 180 degree rope U turn around the "item". A neat observation was that for the SRT tip (and other items) you're ie hoisting the pull side is higher than the object side as you hoist. Then as you slow down and stop they (can) become equal. As you continue and release some rope at first the rope doesn't move on the tip (item) because the friction holds it still until you lower it so far you exceed the reversed tension ratio - then the object side is higher and your tugging side is lower. The tension ratio reverses as you lower. This applies to pulleys. Typical tension ratio is 1.1 to 1.2. There's a crap pile of items with their tension ratios tabulated in that thread.

So you can see how bouncing around with limited data sampling rate combined with the no man's land of indeterminate tensions as the pulley is possibly stopped and not rotating in a consistent direction will eff up. Big mess in a multi pulley system. That's where his wtf us coming from.

Any guesses where the answer is out there?
Oh so you are speaking to:
If you hang a pulley with a rope though it, and straight lift a 50lbs load the non load end must apply more than 50lbs plus overcome the pulley and rope bend inefficiencies. Thus while in motion more than 50lbs plus pulley inefficiencies must be applied. But if held static each leg will eventually equalize and 50 lbs respectively is sufficient to maintain their static positions?

There are some limitations with peak loads and hz too. That and rate of loading along with fiber settling plays important parts. So much so sometimes theoretical math is good enough over all the real world hidden variables
 
Distance and Tension force here are reciprocals traded within a force volume of distance x tension.
Can imagine this trade inside a Zrig of 3xForce output (potential then less conversion tax); because force density concentrated into 1/3 distance. Can put full weight of milk jug concentrated to 1 spot, or dribble it out long, but same total volume to account for; no free rides. The dribble gives less dense weight power per inch, but more distance. Or imagine as a wide or narrow aquarium. Narrow gives more weight force per inch and more side glass force too. Get choice with same volume of water input to each. Denser weight at distance loss or more distance of less dense weight.
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zrig has 3postions with 1,2,3 legs typically used as input, pivot, output respectively. But can have 3 as input, 2 pivot and 1 as output to gain distance/lose power. Like pulling 3x distance with output at 1/3 power like if short run for truck fishing load out of yard... Or can have 3 as pivot, 2 as input to only pull 2x as far at half input power. NOTE: 3x or 2x distance also means at 2x or 3x the speed of input. Safety considerations say keep low and slow, but then too, impact of such a hit if something happens is stronger per value against attaining dynamic state(mass) X value of of dynamic state (speed)SQUARED !!
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Rigid Levers do same trade-off, nothing is free; in fact all has conversion tax.
Rigid Gears do the swap radially.
model: Ten-speed bike is fastest using large gear on front derailleur and yet smaller gear on rear derailleur !?!
because pedal as input arc distance into larger front gear gives more distance than further concentrating into denser force at distance los)s of smaller front gear.
BUT, reverse scenario from input arc to smaller output out vs. now chain delivers for smaller input arc to larger output arc(reverse of larger pedal arc to lesser arc front sprocket choices). For in the rear smaller input arc choices feeds into larger output arc of tire. So using smaller gear here dilutes the force, increasing the distance in trade as smaller gear goes to larger wheel as final output. Passing force volume mix to a larger rear gear would not then dilute out as much distance to final output to wheel. Would preserve more of the force, over the lesser distance (than passing force to smaller rear gear).
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Rope is flexible Lever, but still handles the math-trade the same, nothing free.
Numbers shown/spoken are potentials/finite limits to calc within. So assume impossibility of no friction AND also cosine of input at 100% aligned to work/other pulley legs. If slant input only get the co(lum)sine(as an efficiency)input into system to then multiply (less conversion taxes of friction).


We can have compound levers at truck stop scale of a series of levers pushing each other to compound or dilute further. This can be done extensively inside transmission for rigid radial gears. But also in our "rolling levers" of flexible ropes. Meet the Burtons (2005 older style pic):
Olde_compound_rig_styles.png

This can be an exercise to see, but once catch the form can trace it then more confidently into the simplers.
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Sat so long in DdRT to realize it as a dumbwaiter 2/1-friction output, that then folded that dual input to 1 output inside of systems, and then how i recursively used systems inside of systems and how pulled on it.
Different_ways_of_handing_a_pulley_system_to_get_different_outputs.png

Catch the nuance of how when hanging on end and locking to the interior grab too, as pull with arm as input to the interior, also make self heavier on the exterior pull to feed that too into system, at that input point's ratio to the final output. BUT then if locked interior arm pull and leg force as exterior input, will then also equal/opposite pass the leg force thru bod to fixed interior hand to input the leg force to that position ratio as well !!!!!!

A long time ago, Tom very aptly called a pull on open end as open system, and a DdRT dual pull as closed system to (differences. i think was at ISA 'BBS' Bulletin Board Service/s (pre Y2K bug when called these non-places forums); ty Tom, that has stuck with me well to help sift forensically and in predictions.
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Marlinspike Sailor pics by Hervey Garret Smith are some of my all time faves from way back; that distilled and sifted much from also!
 
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We have awakened Kenny! :)

I'll do a small contribution to the OP's question. Power is mis spoken in reference to mechanical advantage, nothing serious just layman's speak and everyone read the meaning. To actually get more power from a pulley rigged pull you have to increase the force x velocity you apply at the "tug" rope. That's Daniel loader/truck pull territory and is an actual aspect of application different than simple mechanical advantage that most use pulleys for. Lots of ideal MA analysis presented all good stuff. Back in school my easiest to remember was FBD with boundary across the ropes count how many ropes you cut there's your MA if a single reeved rope. Compound system you have to do it maybe twice or actuallly scale the rope tensions. In the real world this goes so horribly inaccurate so fast it really sucks.

hint "you can't always get what you want, ..."
 
We have awakened Kenny! :)

I'll do a small contribution to the OP's question. Power is mis spoken in reference to mechanical advantage, nothing serious just layman's speak and everyone read the meaning. To actually get more power from a pulley rigged pull you have to increase the force x velocity you apply at the "tug" rope. That's Daniel loader/truck pull territory and is an actual aspect of application different than simple mechanical advantage that most use pulleys for. Lots of ideal MA analysis presented all good stuff. Back in school my easiest to remember was FBD with boundary across the ropes count how many ropes you cut there's your MA if a single reeved rope. Compound system you have to do it maybe twice or actuallly scale the rope tensions. In the real world this goes so horribly inaccurate so fast it really sucks.

hint "you can't always get what you want, ..."
If you try, sometimes, you get what you need?
 

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