Hitch hiker/2/x thread

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
F
Yup, that's how I like to run mine also, works perfect. Some guys just seem to prefer having a tender though.
Call me crazy but I have find that all the tending holster does is fuck up the tending ability that a well dialed in HH has to offer...
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
I’ve found that there is less friction if the HH body is allowed to rotate during ascending. This forces the dogbone all the way back off the rope. Pushing from the bottom didn’t seem to guarantee that it would rotate, if not, the dogbone rubs, creating some friction.
 

DSMc

Well-Known Member
Location
Montana
Interesting, I found just the opposite. If the rope is stiff from your body weight and you are advancing with a knee and foot ascender, the HH advances like a dream, and stays oriented for instant engagement.

Same with a haul-back setup. Having the pulley underneath and on the carabiner, keeps the HH straight on the rope with super smooth engagement and release with less set-back than if the HH body were to rotate.
 

Boomslang

Well-Known Member
Location
NB
What hitch are people using with the HH? I started with the "stock" hitch, but found it inconsistent. Switched to a distel and that's been my bread and butter for a few years now.
 

Tom Lynch

Active Member
Location
Brockville
It shouldn't bind, some more time will tell. There is no way for it to rotate and lockout the engagement of the lower dog (carabiner). A fair question for sure.

I really prefer having a pinto to assist with tending, makes ponytail redirects a pain. Having to manage a swivel, rope, pulley and a carabiner aloft is annoying. I'm reworking the design, including all of these features in the spine with quicky style (HHx) with swivel. Hoping to machine a prototype by this winter.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
Interesting, I found just the opposite. If the rope is stiff from your body weight and you are advancing with a knee and foot ascender, the HH advances like a dream, and stays oriented for instant engagement.

Same with a haul-back setup. Having the pulley underneath and on the carabiner, keeps the HH straight on the rope with super smooth engagement and release with less set-back than if the HH body were to rotate.
Not disputing that your method works as smooth as butter, just that allowing it to rotate causing the dogbone to not touch the rope, makes it work like melted butter. I believe Rico discovered this by having the cord crossing in the back. Since this is rope walking, and not a sit stand system, the small amount of sit back is a non issue with me.
Replacing the carabiner with something that makes less contact turns it into melted butter forming rivulets that run down your arm and cascade off your elbow smooth.
1C7B87E9-4F6B-430C-8A97-201D48B0362A.jpeg
Note: the stopper knot is only a single overhand, use what feels safe.
 
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rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
Yea, The standard way to run a hitch on the HH is with the crossover on the spine side, but I usually run my hitch with the crossover on the bone side...Tends better for me that way...
 

Bob Bob

Well-Known Member
Location
somewhere
Hitchhiker Holster? It works great for me on the HH1 and HH2. I've tried tending by the bridge ring as DSMc has shown in post #307 and also tried the bent wire set-up and the sewn rope tending thing but I always come back to the holster.

One of the best tips I have for tending is to not use nearly as many wraps on the hitch as the Ropetek instructions recommended.

Anybody else tending their HH a different way?
 

DSMc

Well-Known Member
Location
Montana
If you look at Brocky's pickti
Not disputing that your method works as smooth as butter, just that allowing it to rotate causing the dogbone to not touch the rope, makes it work like melted butter. I believe Rico discovered this by having the cord crossing in the back. Since this is rope walking, and not a sit stand system, the small amount of sit back is a non issue with me.
Replacing the carabiner with something that makes less contact turns it into melted butter forming rivulets that run down your arm and cascade off your elbow smooth.
View attachment 68323
Note: the stopper knot is only a single overhand, use what feels safe.
Honestly, have you climbed on that, more than once?
 

DSMc

Well-Known Member
Location
Montana
Brocky, you are an acknowledged forum rope and hitch wizard, but this is wrong on so many levels.

But first let me address your comments on rotation benefits.

"Not a sit stand so sit back is not an issue" If all you were doing was that one ascent than that would be true, but how you tend your HH will carry through into work positioning, and in that, sit back does matter, a lot. The shortest distance is a straight line and keeping the HH straight gives the least amount of sit back, no matter what phase you are in.


"allowing it to rotate causing the dogbone to not touch the rope" How so? If the HH rotates it must bend around the dogbone and lower, in your setup, roller. When running straight up the rope, no one surface is under any pressure at all, so if you have tied your hitch right, there is just that small amount of drag coming from the collapsed hitch, nothing more.

Now your setup. Starting on top, the way you have tied onto the dogbone has caused the holding edges to be almost in line with the slot, they should be perpendicular. If you rotate the HH they could get even closer. If you work with the dogbones long sides inline with the slot they have a very good chance of catching an edge and jamming.

Your soft shackle in the bottom slot would, I am sure, give Paul a heart attack. The force form even a small fall is tremendous in that area. Even the heavy steel carabiners and shackles show wear marks. It is of no consequence that you, hopefully, used cut proof cordage, when pressure is applied against it, it will give. This will not only alter the applied and potential friction, it also could deform enough to possibly cause complete failure. As I see it, the whole thing is a terrible idea.
 
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Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
Dave, thanks for your observations, you bring up some valid points.
If the neck tender is removed once in the tree, and you know there is some sit back, hand tend it that much farther than when it becomes taut.

Rotation: the HH hitch, or 180 degree French Valdotain, when tied has to be very tight for it to grab reliably, this pulls the dogbone up tight to the rope. If the body doesn’t rotate it pushes up the hitch, and keeps the dogbone touching the rope producing drag. A rotating body makes the dogbone go to the far end of the slot.
D4B3B41A-CA10-4D90-91A4-31F0D0C48FE9.jpeg

The dogbone can’t rotate far enough for it to become parallel with the slot, the hitch’s crossover in front and the stopper in back trap the rope in its position, when the device is loaded. It’s possible for the dogbone to become wedged if slack, but that can happen with the original configuration. With the hitch being a continuous coil it would self adjust and still grab if the db were to somehow jam, just a part of the ability to descend would be affected.

The bushing does have a 1/2” flat surface, which might bend before the shackle broke, or not. Using something softer like copper tubing would be better to get the bending. It would seem a lot of the load would be taken up by the cord, rope, and dogbone before the lower connector was engaged. To eliminate the sharp bend from the flat surface, a small rigging ring can be used. It appears, needs further use, to act like a sheave, which the bushing didn’t, and is even smoother.
E9B5CE71-92D4-478F-937E-61FBE4B50004.jpeg
 
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DSMc

Well-Known Member
Location
Montana
Take a second look at this overused picture. Notice the length of the hitch legs and the distance that the hitch is sitting above the HH. Combined it is more than enough to set the dogbone in the bottom of its slot. Totally clear even with that fat vortex.

I stand by my statement that if the hitch is tied and dressed properly, there is no noticeable drag, and there is almost zero chance of catching an edge of the dogbone.

I can't comprehend your desire to use a soft shackle in the bottom slot. You are definitely losing a primary component of the design. As the shackle gives under pressure, it is dumping energy that would have gone into pressure against the spine that helps equalize top and bottom points on the spine.

Pauls first prototypes were mandrel formed from a very hard steel. Even so the edges still burred and rolled from the substantial pressure in that area. He eventually found some super strong steel that worked. My point being the HH is capable of high degrees of force in that area. Proceed with caution.
 

Attachments

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
I stand by my statement that if the hitch is tied and dressed properly, there is no noticeable drag, and there is almost zero chance of catching an edge of the dogbone.
I have to agree with Dave here...When my 3 wrap HH hitch is really dialed in, and I am running it stock (biner straight too ring on bridge) it offers almost zero drag on ascent. Kinda reminds of the Runner in that respect...Fucker just falls up the rope....
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
I did take a look, and enlarged that section and taking a straight edge, matched up the two sections of the back of the rope. The dogbone had to be touching the rope comparing it to the cord going through the eye.

Yes, it performs amazingly as originally intended. It‘s functioning can be improved is my point. Although just catching the corners of the eyes isn’t ideal, it is enough to keep the dogbone out of the slot. The hitch keeps it from being able to be parallel with the slot and trying to rotate it either way, even slack. The position it is in in the second picture of post 317 is where it is locked and doesn’t move no matter what, because of no slack in that section.

If by the shackle giving you mean stretch, no matter what material, it will only stretch as far as the amount of load applied, it won’t continually stretch without increasing the load. Even cord on rope, without hardware would share an equal amount of load as a carabiner, when hanging on it. A flat top carabiner would probably work also but the bolt heads against the carabiner spine would stop rotation, the soft shackle easily slips over them.

I’m not understanding why the materials would change the forces being applied. If you are saying the edges will cut the shackle, with both the bushing and the better rigging ring, it makes very little contact, more rubbing than going over an edge. I’m thinking the damage in that area that you describe is due more to two solid objects interacting and banging against each other, can’t happen here.

It only takes a piece of hitch cord along with using the carabiner to try out the top part.
 

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