History, ANSI and spike climbing

I once worked with someone on a job and I was going to be pruning a pine. And I was getting set up and setting a TIP to get up there and they told me to just spike up it.

I was like...uh no.

Don’t know if in some cases it’s just lack of knowledge, or just being in a rush trying to get in and out as fast as possible.

Don’t compromise integrity and what you know is right for production.
 
I think a lot of it in our area is a depressed market when it comes to pruning work. Ive heard repeatedly the excuse that we cant afford to prune without spikes. While I dont at all agree with it, i do understand where they are coming from. We are one of maybe 10 in our area that doesnt use spikes for pruning. There were 112 tree services in the phone book last time i looked. We lose out on pruning work due to price on a fairly regular basis. Alot of this work also gets stacked on the curb for the city or county to pickup. Kinda hard to compete with that going on if you are legitimate and ethical. Of course there's folks that want good work and are willing to pay for it, too. Unfortunately in our market this is 5 to 10 percent.
 
I often forget to self- promote, forgetting how often people do poor work that i could be lumped in with as a "tree-guy".






Sometimes a simple phrase is helpful to have on hand.

"By the way, we always use full-secured rope-access climbing systems for tree care. We absolutely don't irreparably damage your trees with climbing spurs, which are only for removals, and cutting stuff off trees. Pruning decisions and targeted pruning cuts are compliant with professionsl standards, which are based on scientifically-proven methods required by tree anatomy and physiology."
 
southsoundtree said:
I often forget to self- promote, forgetting how often people do poor work that i could be lumped in with as a "tree-guy".






Sometimes a simple phrase is helpful to have on hand.

"By the way, we always use full-secured rope-access climbing systems for tree care. We absolutely don't irreparably damage your trees with climbing spurs, which are only for removals, and cutting stuff off trees. Pruning decisions and targeted pruning cuts are compliant with professionsl standards, which are based on scientifically-proven methods required by tree anatomy and physiology."
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I agree, I forget to do this as well. In fact I think I rely too heavily on anti self promotion.
This fight though I think it’s important to have a anonymous soap box, as you and many others know I’m on a island. The ugly side of it is we are all on this ship together. That is part of the reason this pisses me off so bad, good tree work doesn’t bother me and I actually am happy when I see the product of it in my community done by my hands or not. Where I get really turfy is the hacks.
There’s a time and place for hacks and budget tree work, I have no issue with that. It just pisses me off to no end when the company presents themselves as the best, makes a solid buck to keep the trees healthy and all I see is damage.
I guess they made proper pruning cuts back to the collar though.
 
So my quest has turned up fruitless other than there are too many revisions
There is the current one
2008
2001
And one going back into the 90’s

The 08’ and 01’ may have the same language, identical or ever so slightly different.

Does anyone know who to ask for with the TCIA?
 
I have a thought.

What would you do in situations where you get a tree like a hemlock or pine that is loaded with thin questionable deadwood or even healthy branches but you don’t trust any of them and you can’t get a solid TIP above, and a lift or bucket isn’t an option.

Would YOU spike up then for safety reasons to set a TIP and then take spikes off or...?
 
climbingmonkey24 said:
I have a thought.

What would you do in situations where you get a tree like a hemlock or pine that is loaded with thin questionable deadwood or even healthy branches but you don’t trust any of them and you can’t get a solid TIP above, and a lift or bucket isn’t an option.

Would YOU spike up then for safety reasons to set a TIP and then take spikes off or...?
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Its more work, but you can alternate between lanyard and climb line setting each as high as you can reach around the trunk until you get to your desired tie in point
 
Tom Dunlap said:
What are you looking for?

If you have a current version you should see the names of the committee members in the first few pages. Otherwise, just call TCIA and ask.
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Well I'd like at a minimum to see the actual wording of the 2001 and prior editions regarding spikes. At best I'd love to get my paws on the old ones just have them.
 
evo said:
Well I'd like at a minimum to see the actual wording of the 2001 and prior editions regarding spikes. At best I'd love to get my paws on the old ones just have them.
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I thought you meant really historic. I have 2001
 
From ANSI A300 (Part 1)-2001 Pruning. Page 4.

5.2.2 Climbing spurs shall not be used when climbing and pruning trees.

Exceptions:
-when limbs are more than throwline distance apart and there is no other means of climbing the tree;
-when the bark is thick enough to prevent damage to the cambium;
-in remote or rural utility rights-of-way.
 
climbingmonkey24 said:
I have a thought.

What would you do in situations where you get a tree like a hemlock or pine that is loaded with thin questionable deadwood or even healthy branches but you don’t trust any of them and you can’t get a solid TIP above, and a lift or bucket isn’t an option.

Would YOU spike up then for safety reasons to set a TIP and then take spikes off or...?
Click to expand...
What you're describing is a tree top with a single leader with subordinated branches. Why prune that?
 
climbingmonkey24 said:
I have a thought.

What would you do in situations where you get a tree like a hemlock or pine that is loaded with thin questionable deadwood or even healthy branches but you don’t trust any of them and you can’t get a solid TIP above, and a lift or bucket isn’t an option.

Would YOU spike up then for safety reasons to set a TIP and then take spikes off or...?
Click to expand...
I would never post a youtube video on it, but you can set your line over a bunch of questionable stuff, rope walk in the same fassion as using spurs and a flip line.. perhaps a second line choked that you advance with your flip line. Essentially the main rope is just a climbing aid..
 
I believe there is a section that cuts out organizations like municipalities from spikeless pruning regulations, so (for instance) my local municipality has a contract with Asplund where Asplund will go in my clients' back yards and spike prune powerline right of ways.
 
colb said:
I believe there is a section that cuts out organizations like municipalities from spikeless pruning regulations, so (for instance) my local municipality has a contract with Asplund where Asplund will go in my clients' back yards and spike prune powerline right of ways.
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I don't see that exception. I think the utility companies take the " •Remote/rural utility rights-of-way" to mean any right of way. Point 2 in that regard, they don't, frankly, care about taking care of a tree. They are maintaining a utility. The trees are in the way.

Also, remember, ANSI standards are just that...standards, not regulations. So unless a municipality adopts specific legislation making the standard a regulation, there isn't much they can do. There is nothing in ANSI A300 that makes organizations/municipalities/big companies/50-year old companies with a one-man show, etc... exempt from any "SHALL" statement.
 
27RMT0N said:
No kidding. But I think it's simply a 'how you were taught' thing and the culture you are within. If you start and learn in a place where it's the norm, and the company/climbers aren't interested in trees, it's just a job and "cuttin' stuff", and no one around you has the curiosity to learn and improve as a professional tradesperson, you might not be searching out new information and methods. (Not like spurless climbing is new....) I don't understand that mindset myself, but I can see how it could happen in.... low education areas? I don't mean to sound elitist when I say that, but not everyone in this industry is on TreeBuzz and researching the latest SRT device. To some people it's simply a manual labor job.

Just today I was dead-wooding a stand of large cedar trees. New development, driveway into large acreage, 100-130' trees, sometimes 70' of "low" deadwood the customer wanted removed. For one area, I was able to shoot a line at like 90' and do 4 trees from a single tie-in. Obviously without spurs..... (7 trees on one battery by the way)

(Sorry evo, can't help with your original question about early mentions of spurless climbing. Only that I didn't even know people pruned WITH spurs when I started in the industry at STP...)

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You using the husqvarna? I've been waiting on mine for going on a year now, getting kinda old I really like my stihl but would like to get another battery saw on the jobsite, I looked at one if the echos in the shop today sends like it's got decent power but the battery life reports have held me back on purchasing one.
 
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