Hemlock snag...filled with metal

Daniel

Well-Known Member
Your statements and my responses:

Rico "Never ever allow slack back into the system when pulling over anything.. The rocking motion and the backwards motion in particular can and will break your hinge causing you to loose something over backwards...Do it one too many times and you will regret it."

D. Good feedback, showing good knowledge and experience, however, you do make an obvious error in this criticism. If the rock back caused failure it would have to be to the side weight. There is no chance that tree was going to go over backwards.

Rico: "A maneuver that was made exponentially more bone-headed by the fact that you were working with stone dead wood"

D. good point, but not so much a factor in hemlock as other species. Dead hemlock hinges very well, and given the absence of side lean, the rock back, while showing a systematic problem in his technique, had very little chance (close to zero) of casing failure here. So the term "exponentially" is really a mischaracterization.

Rico: "Some free insight that might save you a very hard lesson in the future. TreeBuzz is cool like that, ain't it."

D. Yep

Rico: "The spar rocked back for the simple fact that they continually allowed slack back into the system. This is usually the conclusion when asking too much from a hand pull."

D: yep

R: "the first thing they do is begin puling sideways instead of pulling in a direct line with the tagline"

D: while good policy to pull in line with the pull line, with a 3:1 system that isn't as crucial as you make it sound. Lining up more than two people on a pull line always requires a bit of logistics. The fact that they could have easily stood behind the trees and used the trees for footholds would make a whole lot more of a difference than the little bit of offset in direction of pull that you criticize. If you are going to criticize for improper pulling technique, the failure to stand behind the trees should have been mentioned at the top of the list. If you really had such superior knowledge as to call someone else bone-headed and amateur hour, you should have at least mentioned using the trees for footholds. It's simple and effective. Your failure to even mention it, suggests a lack of knowledge and experience on your part.

R. "Nothing could be more "crucial" to "performing at a high level" than NOT having your spar/log/top sitting back into its backcut"

D. total BS, far beyond exaggeration. Just a total disregard for speaking the truth. A good example of your ability to speak garbage with complete conviction. This is the way evil works in the world. Evil lies. There is a reason the devil is called the "prince of lies". In an oral tradition society, speaking the truth is one of the highest values. Your disregard for the truth would have you ostracized. Here at TB you're mouthing up like some authority, but you lie without care. Trump lies too. The fact that our country would ever consider re-electing Trump after all the lies he's been caught in, shows how far from the values of the oral traditions we have come. It's social deterioration and people like you and Trump take us further down into that chaos with every lie you speak.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
So what you saying is that when we are pulling over back-leaning and/or side-leaning trees the execution of a proper steady pull is of no importance, nor is it a crucial part of our job? What your saying is that having a tree/log/top sit back in its back cut multiple times is of no importance, and NOT allowing a tree to do so is NOT a crucial part of our job? What you saying is that it was of no importance that instead of properly pulling in a straight line they were tugging on the tagline sideway, which according to you had little to no bearing on the tree sitting back multiple times...What your saying is that dead trees don't loose some of their hinging capacity, and that allowing a dead spar to sit back multiple times was of very little importance?

I do apologize for all the questions Daniel, but my lack of knowledge and any real world experience in such matters is clearly holding me back. Hey, maybe you could be my mentor Daniel?
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
Twisted Words? Really?

"total BS, far beyond exaggeration. Just a total disregard for speaking the truth."

Your response to my assertion that it is an absolutely crucial part of our job that we NOT allow our tree/spar/top/log to sit back in its back-cut, and continuing to do so will surely bit you in the ass.
 
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Daniel

Well-Known Member
you said...
nothing could be more crucial... to operating at a high level...

when you are opeeating at a high level. you are rarely if ever pulling by hand. so generally it's a non issue.

heck. I just got a text from the owner of a company with 2 grapple cranes and a fleet of 75 yard bodies with rear mounted loaders...

try telling him how nothing could be more crucial, when he doesn't even need a rope to complete a $6,000 removal in under 2 hours
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
"Nothing could be more "crucial" to "performing at a high level" than NOT having your spar/log/top sitting back into its backcut..So yes, even though its an extremely simple procedure when done properly, pulling on a tagline can be a maker breaker moment in tree work..."

In the spirit of keeping it honest and real those are my full words which you partially quoted. Do you see the phrase "hand pull" in there Daniel? Nope.

I guess I mistakenly assumed that you understood that allowing slack back into your pulling system when pulling over trees/spars/logs/top/ect is a recipe for disaster...Whether it be a hand pull, a maasdam rope puller, a truck pull, a skidsteer pull, or a D6 pulling on 7/8" cable the principal is universal. Allowing slack back into your system WILL cause rocking which CAN & WILL eventually cause hinge failure at the most inopportune times.... You know, times when we are pulling over back-leaners or side-leaners near valuables... And contrary to your fucking nonsense this danger WILL be compounded when working with dead wood....
 
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rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
Yet we all watched Brady's spar sit back 3 times, and we could all hear his hinge became a little more compromised every time the spar rocked back and forth...So much for a non-issue.

And yes, nothing is more "crucial' to pulling over back-leaners and side-leaners than proper pulling practices, and proper cutting practices....Things like allowing slack in your pulling system, and cutting ones hinge (something you are sadly all too familiar with) will eventually bite you in the ass.
 
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evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
you said...
nothing could be more crucial... to operating at a high level...

when you are opeeating at a high level. you are rarely if ever pulling by hand. so generally it's a non issue.

heck. I just got a text from the owner of a company with 2 grapple cranes and a fleet of 75 yard bodies with rear mounted loaders...

try telling him how nothing could be more crucial, when he doesn't even need a rope to complete a $6,000 removal in under 2 hours
Here comes the dick wagging
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
Yet we all watched Brady's spar sit back 3 times, and we could all hear his hinge became a little more compromised every time the spar rocked back and forth...So much for a non-issue.

And yes, nothing is more "crucial' to pulling over back-leaners and side-leaners than proper pulling practices, and proper cutting practices....Things like allowing slack in your pulling system, and cutting ones hinge (something you are sadly all too familiar with) will eventually bit you in the ass.

Just to be a smart ass there is one thing that is more crucial, but only one. The dude on the other end with the saw. Both have to work in tandem for the plan to, well go as planned.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
Just to be a smart ass there is one thing that is more crucial, but only one. The dude on the other end with the saw. Both have to work in tandem for the plan to, well go as planned.
I think you might have missed the "proper cutting practices" part of my post?

I hope all is well with you and the familia Evo.
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
I think you might have missed the "proper cutting practices" part of my post?

I hope all is well with you and the familia Evo.
You of most people should know I can’t read. Comprehension, fuck dat!

We are surviving, I’ve been having a hell of a time. This kids are growing like a sequoia with roots in a septic tank. Sumer has been all over the map, much better than her worst but baselined under par.

The world being a fucked up place certainly isn’t helping any of our anxieties. We didn’t have to run from fire, but out dyi box fan havac filter ‘air purifier’ browned in a matter of hours
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
I think my tireless focus on amping up production ability has taken away from building a strong foundation of safety protocols and procedures. I can admit it. I am almost completely self-taught and the little tutelage I have received has had nothing to do with safety. But I agree that that aspect of my game needs a little polishing.
Usually, improving technique and equipment for increasing productivity makes the job safer too. Often a LOT safer. Then again rushing around without understanding the finer points of what you are doing can be quite dangerous, even though you may get away with it for years.

UNTIL YOU DON'T!
 

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