Hemlock snag...filled with metal

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
Location
Olympia, WA
Nice job.

I would flushcut some of those stubs, and cut the spar hinge halfway through/ deep, or more, if neutral. Maybe not with all the metal.

definitely would put a progress capture on the rope. A Maasdam power puller turns that into a one person pull, and if redirected back to the butt, the climber can pull it, if solo.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
Everything looked good until the final segment of pulling over the spar. A bit of a train wreck to put it bluntly, and why I personally hate hand pulls. Never ever allow slack back into the system when pulling over anything.. The rocking motion and the backwards motion in particular can and will break your hinge causing you to loose something over backwards...Do it one too many times and you will regret it.
 
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Brady Chapman

Active Member
Location
Bethel, ME
Everything looked good until the final segment of pulling over the spar. A bit of a train wreck to put it bluntly, and why I personally hate hand pulls. Never ever allow slack back into the system when pulling over anything.. The rocking motion and the backwards motion in particular can and will break your hinge causing you to loose something over backwards...Do it one too many times and you will regret it.
Train wreck? Lol. Not once were we in jeopardy of losing that thing over backwards. You honestly think that little bitty rock was cause for concern? I would expect different from guy that takes down monster trees like you do Rico. Or maybe you just like being a critical armchair arborist. The latter sounds more accurate
 

Brady Chapman

Active Member
Location
Bethel, ME
I left after the lack of a second tie in point and the left-handed/one-handed chainsaw technique, so I never made it to the train wreck.
Lol! Treebuzz: where armchair arborists tie in. Let’s see you’re videos. I’d like to see a production climber worth their salt not one hand the saw. My god when did we all get so soft.
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
Train wreck? Lol. Not once were we in jeopardy of losing that thing over backwards. You honestly think that little bitty rock was cause for concern? I would expect different from guy that takes down monster trees like you do Rico. Or maybe you just like being a critical armchair arborist. The latter sounds more accurate
I've seen it, and done it... for honest feedback, it looks like you could have stayed at the stump (that 3:1 is more than enough with two guys) and helped them by continuing to wedge it over.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
Train wreck? Lol. Not once were we in jeopardy of losing that thing over backwards. You honestly think that little bitty rock was cause for concern? I would expect different from guy that takes down monster trees like you do Rico. Or maybe you just like being a critical armchair arborist. The latter sounds more accurate
My message is very simply. Always do your best to never allow slack back into your system when pulling over anything.. Allowing slack into your system is a bone-headed maneuver that can destroy property and can get climbers killed. A maneuver that was made exponentially more bone-headed by the fact that you were working with stone dead wood..

I sat here and watched your spar go backwards and sit back 3 times. Those are 3 moments for potential disaster that a true pro would have never allowed to happen.

I also counted 3 folks watching from their porches as the spar came over.. Those are 3 folks who were well within striking distance if heaven forbid something would have gone wrong. Another bone-headed maneuver.

You could make this a possible learning moment by listening to the critiques that some of us are offering, or you could let your young ego get in the way... The choice is yours buddy....
 
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cerviarborist

Very stable member
Location
Florida, USA
My earlier response to your video was brusque and I apologize for that.


Having said that, I'd like to tell you why I had concerns with what I saw on your video and why I hope you'll consider those points.

One handing a chain saw works... until it doesn't. Doing it right-handed increases the risk of kickback and loss of control significantly, but using it one-handed with the left hand, in addition to disabling the kickback switch that locks the chain on the bar, also puts your torso, neck and head directly into the kickback arc. On top of that you were in a tree with lots and lots of close branches, all of which could initiate a kickback if you accidentally touched one further out while cutting through your target branch. Without a second tie in, if the saw kicked back and missed you, but hit your lanyard, you'd be in free fall.

Can you truthfully say that in hindsight there wasn't anything you could have done to make the job safer? I take no pleasure in pointing out lapses in safety. I and most of the others in here do it because we're tired of reading about our brother and sister treeworkers becoming accident statistics. Nobody in here wants to hear of harm coming to someone we conversed with, and then to wonder whether we should have spoken up and tried to guide them toward safer work practices.

Do the work the safest way you can think of to do it. You'll soon find out that's also the fastest and most sustainable way to do it.

I just want everybody to do good work, make good money doing it, and live to spend every damn nickel of it.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
My earlier response to your video was brusque and I apologize for that.


Having said that, I'd like to tell you why I had concerns with what I saw on your video and why I hope you'll consider those points.

One handing a chain saw works... until it doesn't. Doing it right-handed increases the risk of kickback and loss of control significantly, but using it one-handed with the left hand, in addition to disabling the kickback switch that locks the chain on the bar, also puts your torso, neck and head directly into the kickback arc. On top of that you were in a tree with lots and lots of close branches, all of which could initiate a kickback if you accidentally touched one further out while cutting through your target branch. Without a second tie in, if the saw kicked back and missed you, but hit your lanyard, you'd be in free fall.

Can you truthfully say that in hindsight there wasn't anything you could have done to make the job safer? I take no pleasure in pointing out lapses in safety. I and most of the others in here do it because we're tired of reading about our brother and sister treeworkers becoming accident statistics. Nobody in here wants to hear of harm coming to someone we conversed with, and then to wonder whether we should have spoken up and tried to guide them toward safer work practices.

Do the work the safest way you can think of to do it. You'll soon find out that's also the fastest and most sustainable way to do it.

I just want everybody to do good work, make good money doing it, and live to spend every damn nickel of it.
Always the gentleman Richard...
 

27RMT0N

Well-Known Member
Location
WA
On a different tree forum I've been criticized so many times for doing that because, as far as I can tell, it's a bunch of newbies who saw 'cut your face 1/3 or less!' in a book somewhere and don't really understand physics... Sigh...
 
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Brady Chapman

Active Member
Location
Bethel, ME
My earlier response to your video was brusque and I apologize for that.


Having said that, I'd like to tell you why I had concerns with what I saw on your video and why I hope you'll consider those points.

One handing a chain saw works... until it doesn't. Doing it right-handed increases the risk of kickback and loss of control significantly, but using it one-handed with the left hand, in addition to disabling the kickback switch that locks the chain on the bar, also puts your torso, neck and head directly into the kickback arc. On top of that you were in a tree with lots and lots of close branches, all of which could initiate a kickback if you accidentally touched one further out while cutting through your target branch. Without a second tie in, if the saw kicked back and missed you, but hit your lanyard, you'd be in free fall.

Can you truthfully say that in hindsight there wasn't anything you could have done to make the job safer? I take no pleasure in pointing out lapses in safety. I and most of the others in here do it because we're tired of reading about our brother and sister treeworkers becoming accident statistics. Nobody in here wants to hear of harm coming to someone we conversed with, and then to wonder whether we should have spoken up and tried to guide them toward safer work practices.

Do the work the safest way you can think of to do it. You'll soon find out that's also the fastest and most sustainable way to do it.

I just want everybody to do good work, make good money doing it, and live to spend every damn nickel of it.
Thank you for this post. It is kind of you to apologize even though it is unnecessary. I don't think you were trying to be an ass, I just think you have a different idea than me about the way (all) tree work should be done. I think it is very common in our industry in 2020 to shun any practices that aren't the most safety driven. At least it seems that way based on responses i get on treebuzz, youtube, etc. And it's not just me; I hear pros like August Hunicke lament about it on his channel all the time. I think that people have come to respect the hierarchy of safety more than the hierarchy of efficiency/production. I'm not saying that is terrible thing. Of course there is utility in being more safety oriented than we have been in the past. I know a guy who is in his eighties now that used to free climb without a lanyard and then tie in with a bowline on the bight for his saddle. He took all the Elm trees down in our town of Bethel when dutch elm hit. He used hand saws, and these trees were huge, and next to power lines. A true badass. We have come a long way since then, as we should have. But I am sensing a shift away from respecting the guys who know how to crank out some work, move material, and move on to the next job so long as they break even the most minute safety precaution. That was why I said, my god when did we become so soft. The truth is that there is a balance between being as 100% ultra safe as you can be, and being unsafe in an attempt to achieve the highest levels of production that you possibly can. I disagree with the premise that by doing something "the safest way you can think to do it" that you will find out that it's "also the fastest and most sustainable way to do it." Definitely not true about being the fastest way. True in regards to sustainability as long as you you are talking only of life and not of your business. To sustain a successful business and to grow a business, you need to be focused on production as well. The key is to find the balance. Tree work is dangerous work. It's not for everyone. But I am proud to say that I one hand the chainsaw. Honestly if there is an arborist out there that doesn't feel comfortable one handing the chainsaw, then maybe tree work isn't for him/her. Maybe they just need to improve their chainsaw skills.
 

Brady Chapman

Active Member
Location
Bethel, ME
My message is very simply. Always do your best to never allow slack back into your system when pulling over anything.. Allowing slack into your system is a bone-headed maneuver that can destroy property and can get climbers killed. A maneuver that was made exponentially more bone-headed by the fact that you were working with stone dead wood..

I sat here and watched your spar go backwards and sit back 3 times. Those are 3 moments for potential disaster that a true pro would have never allowed to happen.

I also counted 3 folks watching from their porches as the spar came over.. Those are 3 folks who were well within striking distance if heaven forbid something would have gone wrong. Another bone-headed maneuver.

You could make this a possible learning moment by listening to the critiques that some of us are offering, or you could let your young ego get in the way... The choice is yours buddy....
My ego has nothing to do with it Rico; I simply don't agree with your sentiment. That spar was never in danger of breaking. Although it was stone dead, surprisingly enough, the wood on the butt was still very sound. But you wouldn't know that because the video doesn't show it. Videos seldom do show all the elements in the equation. Another element is that hemlock is the least brittle conifer we have up here in Maine. Ever cut an eastern hemlock? Doesn't really matter. The fact is, is that it is silly to assume so much without having been there. Sure I could have ran a block off of one of those trees and ran the line to the street and pulled it over with the truck. Sure I could have added a progress capture. Sure I could have cut through more metal to ensure that I achieve a 50% depth on my notch. The reason I chose not to do these things was because I had all the gear in my bag on the ground next to me to rig up a 3:1 and was more than confident that it would be sufficient (and take less time; time is money when you have a packed schedule like mine). Everyone can say how they would have done it differently, and what I should have done, or what I should never do, but I didn't grow my (and my wife's) company that started with a broken down old 84' F350 and a dilapidated old chipper to owning 2 dump trucks, 2 chippers, mini skid steer, several work trucks, and all the fancy gear needed for any removal in just 7 years by being a bone head and dropping trees the wrong way and breaking shit. So you think whatever you want to about me Rico, but I'm no slouch. If you had said something worthwhile I would have welcomed it with open arms but you didn't. And I'm curious; do you honestly think your ego has nothing to do with the way you are so opinionated when you watch other people's videos?
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
I understand taking calculated risk. Dumping a spar like that is just plain lazy. Now it’s it the end all, no, but is it worth noting there is room for improvement? Hell yes.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
My ego has nothing to do with it Rico; I simply don't agree with your sentiment. That spar was never in danger of breaking. Although it was stone dead, surprisingly enough, the wood on the butt was still very sound. But you wouldn't know that because the video doesn't show it. Videos seldom do show all the elements in the equation. Another element is that hemlock is the least brittle conifer we have up here in Maine. Ever cut an eastern hemlock? Doesn't really matter. The fact is, is that it is silly to assume so much without having been there. Sure I could have ran a block off of one of those trees and ran the line to the street and pulled it over with the truck. Sure I could have added a progress capture. Sure I could have cut through more metal to ensure that I achieve a 50% depth on my notch. The reason I chose not to do these things was because I had all the gear in my bag on the ground next to me to rig up a 3:1 and was more than confident that it would be sufficient (and take less time; time is money when you have a packed schedule like mine). Everyone can say how they would have done it differently, and what I should have done, or what I should never do, but I didn't grow my (and my wife's) company that started with a broken down old 84' F350 and a dilapidated old chipper to owning 2 dump trucks, 2 chippers, mini skid steer, several work trucks, and all the fancy gear needed for any removal in just 7 years by being a bone head and dropping trees the wrong way and breaking shit. So you think whatever you want to about me Rico, but I'm no slouch. If you had said something worthwhile I would have welcomed it with open arms but you didn't. And I'm curious; do you honestly think your ego has nothing to do with the way you are so opinionated when you watch other people's videos?
You could spend another 3 paragraphs blowing smoke up you own ass and it would never change the fact that we all witnessed your spar rock backwards 3 times. Watch your vid from 3:36 - 3:50 buddy. That my friend is 3 dudes who clearly haven't got the slightest clue how to properly pull over wood. Strange because knowing how to properly pull wood over is basic Tree-man 101 shit that for some reason seems to have eluded you fellas. Thank god someone came along to point out the error of your ways before something bad happened. Some free insight that might save you a very hard lesson in the future. TreeBuzz is cool like that, ain't it.
 
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