Health Insurance Benefits

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Lol, sure will chime in, representing Norway. We pay 0$ a year for each person in health insurance. All health care in Norway is public, excluded dental expenses. Of course, we do pay our taxes, 25% salestaxes on services and items and an employers tax, at about 14% of the sallery. We also have to pay 10,2% of the total sallery in "vacation money". Usually paid out in june. Everybody is entitled to have at least 4 (or was it 5) weeks vacation.

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Kinda hard to determine whether you're happy or unhappy with the healthcare setup in Norway Erlend?

Care to chime in again?

Jomoco
 
Definatly happy. I like the idea that everyone is entitled to a decent and equal health care program, not dependant on how much you make, what family you born in, etc.

There are of things that could be better, but that goes for all parts of society :-)
 
We're in Canada and basic healthcare is covered already, though there are medical premium each person/family pays monthly. If we were to offer healthcare benefits we could cover the MSP (Medical Services Premium) costs, as well as offer an extended medical plan that would cover things like prescriptions, massage therapy, chiro, dental, etc.

We've kicked around the idea of doing it but honestly it is so hard to find a climber here that does not have a drug or alcohol habit and I have a hard time offering them medical benefits when they do because you know they are higher risk and it's going to cost you in the end(though maybe we could exempt them because of addiction?). Need to look into it again.

Thinking we might start headhunting guys from other companies around here as we need a climber right now - maybe benefits will be a good enticement.
 
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Lol, sure will chime in, representing Norway. We pay 0$ a year for each person in health insurance. All health care in Norway is public, excluded dental expenses. Of course, we do pay our taxes, 25% salestaxes on services and items and an employers tax, at about 14% of the sallery. We also have to pay 10,2% of the total sallery in "vacation money". Usually paid out in june. Everybody is entitled to have at least 4 (or was it 5) weeks vacation.

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I wish someone would take the time to compare our (US) current taxation to this model? Here are my quick estimates:

Between SS tax and other state and local taxes we should be close if not more than the 14% of salary. We (TCI) pay approximately 5% - 8% in vacation based on time of employment. Our sales tax here is 7%. The kicker is our (TCI's) family health plans average about 18% and single plans average about 8% of salary.

Erlend, are these all the taxes or are there more?

I think Americans are fearful about what health care might become in the hands of the government... I am scared of that.

I think the government is fearful of the economic and political impact of taking over health care. I am scared of that too.

Can we agree (US citizens) our current system is seriously flawed?

I am curious how the other buzzers feel about this?
 
Really, you think it is flawed???

The health care package is on the Supreme Court's desk. Guess we will see how that turns out.

As far as taxes go, have to pay to play. Nice roads we drive on... 14%? I don't know what tax freedom day is but I think it is May sometime.

Health care: Once we decide NOT to pay for insurance, the battle will be won. MOST of the overhead that is in the medical field is the employees and businesses that make the bucks from controling everything (insurers). That cost is TREMENDOUS! The insurance agent's office has granite counters for heavens sake. I don't have granite in my house :|. If you could kick all them out of health care and then check the attourneys that are also cleaning up on liability, medicine would be a heap cheaper. A bit over simplified, but just sayin.
 
I do NOT LIKE the EUropEan Model AT ALL!!!!! I think there is a better answer....somewhere between what we have now and what they have....I think the even steven thing is commy!!
It s been tried and failed all throughout history yukk
 
Our current system is flawed for the following reasons:

1) If you make less that 42K and have children in the State of Ohio you qualify for Medicaid. This is already state run medical insurance. But it doesn't stop there. It will cover things like dental and braces 100% even pays vision. This insurance is better than anything available on the open market.

2) If you work for a company and are stricken with terminal cancer tomorrow and decide to try all available treatment. You cease to be able to work and the company has under 25 employees and isn't required to offer you cobra. The company is required by the insurer to drop coverage as you are no longer an employee. The State takes over your health bills and seizes your assets. You die after a year of battling. Your family is left with virtually nothing... That happens!

The only reason you need health insurance is to protect your assets. If you have little or no assets there is no reason to have insurance as you will get care and the taxpayers will ultimately foot the bill. The current system penalizes success and rewards failure...

As soon as you have a major claim the insurance company will do all it can to deny coverage and transition you to a government program of some type. They have crazy rules and policies that will make your head spin attempting to follow them. I just went through a 700K claim and have had numerous fights over crazy issues. Our insurance is through Blue Cross / Blue Shield and would be considered a "cadillac plan"...

3) Another point is that I as an employer have no business in health care. Each employee has different needs and is in a different stage of life. Yet if they enter the market on their own... good luck finding acceptable rates or coverage on an individual plan... But you can be lumped in your employers pool and it becomes more affordable... We are only allowed one plan... one size fits all. Makes no sense

4) Health Insurance is currently a monopoly with the government regulating who can offer and sell care where... If Obama or anyone really cared for that matter opening up the markets would be a great improvement. Instead they take the political contributions and then keep the monopoly in place... Why do I only have 3 real players in the insurance market to chose from???

I used to believe our current system was good. Until a very close friend and employee got terminal cancer and died. I also went through this system myself last year... No fun. I think if someone has had a major issue their opinion may be different.

I have my own idea's of what I think the solution is, but it would require this to be the longest post in treebuzz history and that would kill this thread...

Why do you think our system isn't flawed? Am I off base?
 
We are trying to fix a broken system.

That million dollar medical bill:
200k for the actual cost of direct care provision. I could afford to do this if I had to. I would not like it, but I could.
800k for the overhead associated with today's practice and the insurance company overhead. When they don the nitrile glove and treat me, I will be willing to pay for this.
Before you get upset about that generalization, provide me with the numbers - I haven't been able to find them.

For us, insurance is currently about a 15% cost. We work our butts off to keep that rate in check. There is LOTS of paper and record keeping this in check. It has been as high as 20%. No insurance, I could be 20% less cost and I would be spending a boat load less in management time.

They crepe into an industry. They have tried it with the legal proffession for legal fees. Of what use is dental insurance. The veternarians have bought into it. Taken a pet to a vet lately? It is unreal the cost. Used to be something I could pay and not sweat it too much.

Do you work for an insurance company or a homeowner? Will you contract with an insurance company to perform all their work? How much do you charge? Do they tell you? Do they cover the job entirely? Lately I am getting - can you break the cost down for the part JUST to get it off the house. We will not pay for disposal or the time it takes to take care of what is not on the house. And it is lightning struck because that is the only thing the policy ccovers.

Apply that to health care. If they are invited in, they determine what will be paid and when. With physicians, they bought into the steady patient stream for security. It has become 2 additional office personnel and 90 days + receivables. That costs money that is NOT patient care. On the other side (the insurance company) there is a corresponding cost and an executive at the helm that makes bank. Your health care dollar pays all that.

So fix it with a government plan? REALLY? How do you feel about that retirement plan they got going for us? I grew up with my grandparents on that fixed income only. Pretty darn weak. Most of us have some other funds working elsewhere.

I say get our big boy pants on and get out their and start paying for our services directly. Kick the overhead out of the profession. I want to see the doctor, not all the office staff.

My insurance rates have gone up huge percentages every year. What about my wages? It is nutty. If I jacked my prices by 30% in a year, I would be done as an entity.

You are definitely correct, it is a HUGE can of worms to open. Kinda like the jack in the box and we are cranking way...
 
If you think it's morally and ethically acceptable for the CEO's of AETNA and CIGNA to rake in multi-million dollar paychecks for denying coverage to the sick and dying?

Then don't tread on them.

I personally think they're slime bags of the highest order.

jomoco
 
Can anyone actually DEFEND an insurance company? As much as i do not like them.....What makes me think the GOVERNMENT is gonna take better care of me? Just swapping out one greedy entity for another imho...and what about the young really healthy people who do not really want to spend the money they work so hard for on Some fat expensive insurance "buy in" ....They should have a right NOT to buy it!! I did not go to a doctor for 10years once.!!! Had No insurance...didnt want didnt need..didnt care....What reason can be given to FORCE someone to buy something.........The "greater good argument?"
 
Applying good old capitalism to this debate isn't workable. Entering profit and loss into a life or death decision... just seems illogical to me?

The problem with allowing people to not carry insurance is a simple one if you apply capitalism. If you don't have insurance and you can't pay... no care. If you are a healthy young person and decide you don't want care... good you get none! The problem with our system today is that you can make the decision to not have coverage and if something happens... the public at large is forced to pay for you anyway. I certainly couldn't be the guy at the door of the hospital saying "sorry, no care for you".

The other issue is the astronomical costs of health care. Fireaxe has already pointed out the reasons why this cost is so high. I think it is too far out of control to reign in. Middle class people would be bankrupted by a minor hospital stay without insurance...

This is a very complex issue and has so many angles... I know it is broken, but there is no simple fix.

Chew on this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_109143.html
 
Did a bit of broad research...

20000 - 2011 annual cost of health care average household.
250000 housholds in US - 2011 census.

equals

$5 trillion health care expenditures.

Uncompensated care $53 billion.

It is so many zeros to enter. That is 10.6%. Is my math right?

Write the check! I still bet that is way less than the budget for all the extra non-medical folks (lot of voters)that are in that 20000 a year figure.

What I find interesting about the chart that I came across and did not check the source admittedly, is that the costs are absorbed by principly medicare by a large margin followed by DHL payments to hospitals (whatever that is). The docs and hospitals arene't sucking up so much of it.
 
Any professional/profitable company should give employees health care benefits. If you value your employees and they do their job well it should be provided, IMO. Providing health care benes will help your company hire better employees. The bone heads who want to cheat the system and work for cash wont even want it, but as an employer you shouldn't want them either.
 
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Any professional/profitable company should give employees health care benefits. If you value your employees and they do their job well it should be provided, IMO. Providing health care benes will help your company hire better employees. The bone heads who want to cheat the system and work for cash wont even want it, but as an employer you shouldn't want them either.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Providing heath care shows an employee that you value them not only as a worker for your company but also care for their wel-being as a person. My employer provides me Aetna's top coverage, an 11,000 a year plan and this is for a single individual. It is the best of the best. Also a 550 dollar clothing allowance is given to every employee each year. I'm not saying every employer should provide the best health care there is but employees do appreciate when an employer cares enough to offer coverage. Although health care costs are rising so is the cost of almost everything else. Providing your employees health care separates a company apart from the ones who don't. This will reflect in the owners bottom line.
 
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Providing heath care shows an employee that you value them not only as a worker for your company but also care for their wel-being as a person...Providing your employees health care separates a company apart from the ones who don't...

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I agree. Great comments.
 
lol have you ever heard the word recession...i have 5 employees they are lucky to even have a job...i own a professional/and profitable company and i want to actually retire someday. i pay my employees very well. they can figure out there healthcare themselves. you guys must all work for wright or asplund or davey...
 
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