GRCS

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Get a GRCS and with the money earned with it buy a Hobbs. That way you could have the best of both worlds. Has anyone ran that set up before?

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Yup! AND, we have a Simpson capstan winch powered by Stihl, and a chipper winch.
 
Bottom line,
The GRCS suffered damage from not being attached properly. After it was attached properly it took the load.

Because of the component construction of the GRCS, the damage was easily repaired completly at a minimal cost of under 200 bucks.
This is very important to me, as a small business operator. I dont want to have to buy a complete new unit if something should go wrong.

I am convinced that this test was very revealing as to which unit is better FOR ME.

The Hobbs is now damaged equipment. If you want to continue to use it, that is a personal choice, one I am not comfortable with doing myself. Prehaps you have a better understanding of metal and how it responds to being bent, and if it is still safe to use, I dont.

I am not comfortable using equipment which is damaged, the folks who work for me, take their paychecks and use it to feed their familys and work another day. I am not comfortable having them use equipment which is damaged, I could not sleep at night.

Effortlessly lifting loads with gear reduction,
effortlessly locking off loads,
effortlessly pre-tension the load line,
heck even easily and safely winch a climber up the tree,
having the drill attachment for winching loads long distances,
being able to mount the unit on my truck,
using the fixed bollard to drop loads,
AND being able to seperate the unit reduces the weight and facilitates lugging it around and mounting it

it just does so much. And do all this easily and productivly with one person working the winch while the other crew members can work to keep the landing zone clear and brush moving out to the chipper.

Yes, I am biased. When a product comes along that makes such a significant difference to my bottom line, I am all for it.


I am done now with hashing this over, I think I have made my personal viewpoints clear.


Dont mean to piss anyone off, but personal opinions are just that, personal. We are all entitled to have them.
 
DELETED BY FRANS

I deleted this post because it did not pertain to the topic

Thank you

crazy.gif
 
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The fascinating thing to me is the beefy metal in the Hobbs is beefy. And is welded to more beefy metal. And it bent a bit.

The Harken winch is only retained on the plate by six teeny weeny machine screws and nothing happened to them. THAT is fascinating!

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Did you miss the part where the bollard exploded on the GRCS?


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http://www.yourdictionary.com/explode

By these definitions the Hobbs as well 'exploded'.


My point Dan was not that the drum came off of the winch. That is why I used the term 'Harken winch' as I felt using the term GRCS would imply a bias.

I have taken apart my Harken (homemade mini GRCS) in order to understand how it works. The drum is retained by a .5 inch screw (approx) and the gear assembly and frame is retained by the teeny weeny machine screws THIS is what I find fascinating......every time I make a lift I get a wow effect in my head. I see Hobbs/GRCS (frame) as being build it-big-with-lots-'o-welds-and-thick-steel-good-old American engineering and I see the Harken as small-bits-'o-precision-steel-'German' engineereing (metaphor as it probably isn't german engineered) I think it's a neat perspective of analysis.

My POINT was that even if you bolted both devices to the tree with a dozen lags it IS fascinating that 6 teeny weeny screws hold everything together on the Harken.
 
wow, after watching that video i apologize for saying anything bad about the hobbs device, its a lot stronger than i thought, but as stated before by many that it isnt very good for lifting, but apparently its very very good for rigging volvos, ill stick the the grcs but i am very impressed by the hobbs, especially because it has the two straps to hold it to the tree, i dont know why grcs doesnt do the same thing, the video clearly shows it could use it
 
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but i am very impressed by the hobbs, especially because it has the two straps to hold it to the tree,

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Hobbs only uses 1 mounting strap as does the GRCS. I use the GRCS 80% of the time and Hobbs 20%. However, if I'm just dropping wood I much prefer the Hobbs. The destruction testing was interesting but had no relation to the type of rigging that I'd encounter or permit and so would never have a bearing on which device gets pulled out of the truck.
Phil
 
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The destruction testing was interesting but had no relation to the type of rigging that I'd encounter or permit and so would never have a bearing on which device gets pulled out of the truck.
Phil

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AH HA!
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO POINT THIS OUT!

FINALLY IT HAPPENED!

That is the most excellent response to my test I have EVER heard to date!
Seriously.
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The testing was an abnormal application of forces on devices which were NEVER EVER designed to take those types of loads.

It was interesting (to me) as an academic exercise, and I learned alot from doing it, and I had a tree-mendous amount of fun doing it. And I believe myself very lucky that all those folks came out to help.
Maybe they thought it was a good idea, but I privately think all those folks came out to watch because it was kind of like being invited to a train wreak.

I also got a lot of laughs out of doing something that crazy and wild which made me no money whatsoever.


BUT the reality is, dont take it too seriously. Work within the limits of the devices, and above all, have fun (well, be safe too).
 
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treeco.

...and Frans' obviously biased statement...

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'treeco' you have an imperfect understanding of the English language to wit
the definition of 'bias' is:

Bias: prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

There is nothing 'unfair' about what I wrote regarding the grcs & hobbs rigging devices.

This latest conversation on this subject is known as 'debate'.

I would prehaps respect your input if you attempted to follow the basic precepts of civility in discourse, and strive for accuracy in your labelings of me and others.

It appears to me from your writings that your main goal is to defame me and/or any other person whom you arbitrarily decide to attack on any paticular subject.

Just in case you require help with the word defame, here is the definition of that word:

<font color="red"> libel, slander, malign, cast aspersions on, smear, traduce, give someone a bad name, run down, speak ill of, vilify, besmirch, stigmatize, disparage, denigrate, discredit, decry; informal; do a hatchet job on, drag through the mud, slur; informal; badmouth. </font>

Because the TreeBuzz is a web forum dedicated to the advancement of the tools, techniques, and principals of practice in the trade of Treework/Arboriculture, wont you please follow the forum guidlines?

This is NOT a forum designed to facilitate these non-constructive personal attacks towards me or other members of this web site.

I would tender the suggestion that you instead employ the antonym of defame which is: compliment.



Thank you

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Frans you are going to have a stroke!

I think your writing shows your bias. To say a device is not capable of lifting because it is not self tailing is a false statement. That's kind of like a lie.


Frans wrote:
"On a personal note, I don't understand why folks say the Hobbs is able to lift loads. I learned on a Hobbs, and cranking up loads is virtually impossible with one person."

How does cranking up the Hobbs and taking up slack being more difficult on the Hobbs with one person lead to Fran's conclusion of: "I don't understand why folks say the Hobbs is able to lift loads"?

I owned a Hobbs from 1989 to 2000, eleven years. We would use it weekly with a 4 or 5 man crew. When I sold my interest in the tree business it went with the business. I've owned a GRCS since 2002. Both devices work almost exactly equally well and the night and day difference Frans sees does not exist except in the pittance of his mind!
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smallwood, on the video there was two straps, thats where i got my info, and i didnt care about the destruction of the devices because honestly it was a stupid test, as trained and qualified arborist i hope we all know more than to go as big as a volvo, especially during dynamic loading as they showed with the drops, i was more interested in how well the hobbs stayed on the tree instead of being lifted up towards the rigging point, as the grcs had done. we had dealt with this problem but only once, my ground crew didnt tighten the device hard enough so it was lifted but only very slightly, but ever since the incident i was intrigued with what could have happend with a larger load ( maybe the size of a volvo ha) we havent had the problem since, although for those of you who do own a hobbs, does the hobbs use rubber feet on it to attach to the tree as the grcs does?
 
'People of questionable moral character'? LOL.

Speaking of morals.....

I believe you have been caught giving a very biased if not outright untruthful presentation of the facts surrounding these two devices.
 
Here's one for you Frans:

pseu·do·sci·ence
Pronunciation: "süd-O-'sI-&amp;n(t)s
Function: noun
: a system of theories, assumptions, and methods erroneously regarded as scientific —pseu·do·sci·en·tif·ic /-"sI-&amp;n-'tif-ik/ adjective

Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
 
Unless one is willing to do the work better one shouldn't criticize, lest one might be considered and armchair scientist.

And an invitation to anyone intersested in taking Frans' backyard investigations to the full scientific level, I will volunteer my time to help with set-up, climbing and rigging.....and a modicum of analysis, but as I don't have a degree, my analysis is of a lay persons logic. Any one...open invitation.
 
How about using PM or email to bash each other!

Or...write to Mark or myself if you would like our attention. It gets wearisome to witness people womping on each other and doing laundry in public.
 
i was wondering why i havent seen any good posts lately on tree buzz, for the past week its been this thread and the rigging a rotten tree thread, funny, i guess nothing else has happened in the tree world this week, or even last, its like when a snow storm hits your town, apparently all crime and other important news froze in the cold climates and the only story you hear about is the snow, from 90 different angles from a thousand different points of view
 
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