grafted limbs on a live oak
- Thread starter Fatcord
- Start date
- Location
- Mt. Shasta, CA
Man, if you ever have reason to cut that limb (those limbs?) out later, I'd love to see a picture series of a Shigo-style limb dissection.
Treezybreez
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Lancaster, SC
That's pretty neat. do you have any more pics of it? Was the purpose to add more foliage?
I have grafted a Persian lime onto an orange before and it changed the growing characteristics of the lime to be similar to the orange.
I like to practice on Rose of Sharron. I even grafted a pink flowered one onto a white.
I have grafted a Persian lime onto an orange before and it changed the growing characteristics of the lime to be similar to the orange.
I like to practice on Rose of Sharron. I even grafted a pink flowered one onto a white.
- Location
- Federal Way WA
I found a bigleaf maple here in WA with a live piece of wood bracing two much larger limbs. Fused/grafted long ago and now looks a little like the cross piece of an "A" I would guess that all trees have the potential to do this. Kind of makes you question the reasoning behind removing crossing and rubbing limbs.
Treezybreez
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Lancaster, SC
Treezybreez
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Lancaster, SC
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Years ago I stopped removing rubbing branches as a routine part of pruning.
My first insight about rubbing and decay came after removing a broken limb that had been rubbing. I took the rubbed part to my bandsaw and ripped it into cookies and also lengthwise. There was NO decay! The edges of the rubbed area looked exactly like the edges of a branch collar cut. After that I looked for more examples. Time after time I found no decay.
Sooooo....that was the end of cutting out crossing limbs unless there were more compelling reasons.
When fused/grafted pieces have to be removed they deserve to be saved and hung on the wall in respect to their unusual growth. It seems like smooth barked trees fuse easier than rough barked ones. there are a few fused live oak limbs on campus though.
My first insight about rubbing and decay came after removing a broken limb that had been rubbing. I took the rubbed part to my bandsaw and ripped it into cookies and also lengthwise. There was NO decay! The edges of the rubbed area looked exactly like the edges of a branch collar cut. After that I looked for more examples. Time after time I found no decay.
Sooooo....that was the end of cutting out crossing limbs unless there were more compelling reasons.
When fused/grafted pieces have to be removed they deserve to be saved and hung on the wall in respect to their unusual growth. It seems like smooth barked trees fuse easier than rough barked ones. there are a few fused live oak limbs on campus though.
I pruned a sugar maple that had a limb that grew through the middle of another one. I had to take the take the limb off for clearance of a future building (city orders), but I only cut it back to the exit point of the fusion. I left the fused union just cause I thought it was cool and it probably added structural support. That and god knows the tension and compression of it 
.
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[ QUOTE ]
Years ago I stopped removing rubbing branches as a routine part of pruning.
My first insight about rubbing and decay came after removing a broken limb that had been rubbing. I took the rubbed part to my bandsaw and ripped it into cookies and also lengthwise. There was NO decay! The edges of the rubbed area looked exactly like the edges of a branch collar cut. After that I looked for more examples. Time after time I found no decay.
Sooooo....that was the end of cutting out crossing limbs unless there were more compelling reasons.
When fused/grafted pieces have to be removed they deserve to be saved and hung on the wall in respect to their unusual growth. It seems like smooth barked trees fuse easier than rough barked ones. there are a few fused live oak limbs on campus though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like Tom, I arrived at the same conclusion via another road less traveled by. If everybody doesn't already know, I've been muttering about the Reason To Prune mantra for some 25 years; specifically here, the instruction to remove rubbing branches.
A part of my own primitive aboricultural scratch and sniff test was a big green ash next to my house with a 3 inch limb rubbing on the asphalt shingles of the low section of my roof. I could climb out a window and walk over to the limb, pick it up, look at it, and set it back down. To protect the roof, I laid down a separate section of roll roofing material beneath the limb which was the equivalent of a big piece of tree sandpaper. (There wasn't the full weight of the limb on the roof; the curve of the branch held it in place--subject to movement by the wind.)
For all the 6 years it was there, which included my finally raising the limb and tying it back off the roof with a small rope, the "wound", never changed much in appearance or size. It just looked like a de-barked section of a woody cylinder injured under all sorts of other circumstances. Seemed to me that the cambium advanced during the growing season, and the winter winds rubbed it all back off again during dormancy: sort of a zero-sum game.
I never did go out and look for full closure; I ended up selling the house, moving to Nova Scotia, and assume the closure's there, but also the tree is now part of the ash debacle in Chicago.
In joining this thread, and the examples of trees grafting at various points, I must ask the question, “So what?” The assumption about cutting out rubbing branches is that there will be continuous injury--and subsequent spreading damage.
It is been mentioned many times in these forums, along with pictures, that a lot of spontaneous grafts by trees seems sound and healthy. And there were a number of authors who suggested alternatives of grafting to nearby trees, or inside the tree itself, as a substitute for cabling.
That all deserves its own series of posts like, what happens if we have to take down a "crutch tree?"
I agree with Treeness and Tom's decisions; judge our actions to fit the actual conditions rather than Pavlovian repetitions of why we prune.
Bob Loco it's
PS: One of these days I'll start a thread about my adventures with grafting trees at North Eastern Illinois University. Look for it at nearby theaters this summer, Bummer Tree.
Years ago I stopped removing rubbing branches as a routine part of pruning.
My first insight about rubbing and decay came after removing a broken limb that had been rubbing. I took the rubbed part to my bandsaw and ripped it into cookies and also lengthwise. There was NO decay! The edges of the rubbed area looked exactly like the edges of a branch collar cut. After that I looked for more examples. Time after time I found no decay.
Sooooo....that was the end of cutting out crossing limbs unless there were more compelling reasons.
When fused/grafted pieces have to be removed they deserve to be saved and hung on the wall in respect to their unusual growth. It seems like smooth barked trees fuse easier than rough barked ones. there are a few fused live oak limbs on campus though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like Tom, I arrived at the same conclusion via another road less traveled by. If everybody doesn't already know, I've been muttering about the Reason To Prune mantra for some 25 years; specifically here, the instruction to remove rubbing branches.
A part of my own primitive aboricultural scratch and sniff test was a big green ash next to my house with a 3 inch limb rubbing on the asphalt shingles of the low section of my roof. I could climb out a window and walk over to the limb, pick it up, look at it, and set it back down. To protect the roof, I laid down a separate section of roll roofing material beneath the limb which was the equivalent of a big piece of tree sandpaper. (There wasn't the full weight of the limb on the roof; the curve of the branch held it in place--subject to movement by the wind.)
For all the 6 years it was there, which included my finally raising the limb and tying it back off the roof with a small rope, the "wound", never changed much in appearance or size. It just looked like a de-barked section of a woody cylinder injured under all sorts of other circumstances. Seemed to me that the cambium advanced during the growing season, and the winter winds rubbed it all back off again during dormancy: sort of a zero-sum game.
I never did go out and look for full closure; I ended up selling the house, moving to Nova Scotia, and assume the closure's there, but also the tree is now part of the ash debacle in Chicago.
In joining this thread, and the examples of trees grafting at various points, I must ask the question, “So what?” The assumption about cutting out rubbing branches is that there will be continuous injury--and subsequent spreading damage.
It is been mentioned many times in these forums, along with pictures, that a lot of spontaneous grafts by trees seems sound and healthy. And there were a number of authors who suggested alternatives of grafting to nearby trees, or inside the tree itself, as a substitute for cabling.
That all deserves its own series of posts like, what happens if we have to take down a "crutch tree?"
I agree with Treeness and Tom's decisions; judge our actions to fit the actual conditions rather than Pavlovian repetitions of why we prune.
Bob Loco it's
PS: One of these days I'll start a thread about my adventures with grafting trees at North Eastern Illinois University. Look for it at nearby theaters this summer, Bummer Tree.
- Location
- Austin, TX
I have had many of these same debates internally over the years. The wounds caused by rubbing may not be terribly significant, and I don't arbitrarily cut a rubbing limb to avoid the wound (except there is concern here relating to oak wilt, which can enter a new tree through exposed vascular tissue). But, often, when I am lifting a low branch for clearance, the reduced weight causes the remainder of the limb to lift into the next layer of the canopy, creating rubbing limbs. Sometimes it's clear others have done the same for years, resulting in a tangled mess. The result is much rubbing, plus the reduced branch has nowhere to go except back into the roof, street, etc.
In these cases, I reduce each layer above the clearance cuts. This has the effect of removing a lot of the rubbing, but also trains the whole section to grow up and over, rather than back down into.
As for the oak wilt thing, we Texans have discussed this extensively in recent months. After years of TFS recs that say "Avoid pruning in Spring", consumers have begun to demand a rule against spring pruning of oaks. We have resisted because we feel a low limb that is constantly being damaged by vehicles is a greater threat to the tree than a pruning cut to resolve it, regardless of timing. As pros, we look at the extent of natural wounding and surmise that we'd have no oaks left if aerial transmission were really such a big factor. Still, we have to consider that a given client will likely be more concerned about his particular tree than about the urban forest as a whole, and I can't really justify leaving a lot of active wound sites in an oak tree here. On those years-of-bad-pruning trees, I sometimes have to choose a few places to cut and leave the rest, but in a mostly uninjured oak, removing a rubbing branch or two seems prudent.
In these cases, I reduce each layer above the clearance cuts. This has the effect of removing a lot of the rubbing, but also trains the whole section to grow up and over, rather than back down into.
As for the oak wilt thing, we Texans have discussed this extensively in recent months. After years of TFS recs that say "Avoid pruning in Spring", consumers have begun to demand a rule against spring pruning of oaks. We have resisted because we feel a low limb that is constantly being damaged by vehicles is a greater threat to the tree than a pruning cut to resolve it, regardless of timing. As pros, we look at the extent of natural wounding and surmise that we'd have no oaks left if aerial transmission were really such a big factor. Still, we have to consider that a given client will likely be more concerned about his particular tree than about the urban forest as a whole, and I can't really justify leaving a lot of active wound sites in an oak tree here. On those years-of-bad-pruning trees, I sometimes have to choose a few places to cut and leave the rest, but in a mostly uninjured oak, removing a rubbing branch or two seems prudent.
The point at which a cross-grafted branch becomes a concern to me is when it occurs as a graft across a major leader, specifically on the upper, tensioned side of it, effectively producing a stress-riser that can lead to failure of the leader. I see it often in Beech and Sycamore.
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