I was in a 140 plus black oak this morning. Everything was going great until time to top. Notched it a started my back cut and the wind picked up quick and it broke back on me. Just about got me. I had to hang for about10 min and calm down. Lol. Anybody done the same thing? Any thoughts??
Got spooked today
- Thread starter Alcoley
- Start date
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
If in doubt, use a wedge.
Cut half the back cut (6-9 o'clock), insert wedge, cut the remainder of the back cut. Wedge over, push over, or pull over.
If you weren't in doubt, you shoulda been.
Glad you made it!
Cut half the back cut (6-9 o'clock), insert wedge, cut the remainder of the back cut. Wedge over, push over, or pull over.
If you weren't in doubt, you shoulda been.
Glad you made it!
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
By the way, Welcome!
Yep, all aspects but the wind, which is out of one's control. The farther up a stem, the more the wind will probably be an issue.
Most times, people get away with this type of stuff.
I always have a standing rule, If You Are Not Sure, Don't Do It...Stop...Say Something. It comes right after the If You Can't Do It Safely... rule
This is for employees, as well as myself. Too often, they don't recognize when they are not sure. Its usually follow up by, "Butt, I though...", and as we know, Butts are often closely associated with crap. Rarely do people get hurt when everyone works on the basis of being sure of everything. More realistically, injuries and property damage happen a lot less when people try to Plan the Work, Work the Plan, and evaluate If the Plan Worked.
Absolute surety is clearly an ideal, and can't happen most off the time, and especially with humans, trees, wind, hidden defects, uncertainty of known defects.
You learned an 'expensive lesson, cheaply', in that being way up a big tree is the last place you want to alone and clobbered by a heavy part of a tree.
I generally try to have the groundie take a couple wraps and tie-off the pull rope. This keep it out of the way until the cut is made, which isn't always immediate. Sometimes, its just storing the rope off the ground out of the way until ground felling, sometimes its for the top.
I was topping a doug-fir that had lost its original top. There was a dog-leg. Back-Lean over the garage.
My groundie, like so many groundie (that's part of why they're groundie laborers), wanted to take short cuts. Had he just followed the standing plan, and tied off the pull rope with a little tension, it couldn't have set back when he started getting swarmed by yellow jackets and I told him to run. The top set back (no wedge, as it wasn't big, and had a pull rope), and hinge started to tear, putting the rope where it would run over me and my flipline as the top was going to head for the soon-gonna-need-a-new-roof garage. I quickly responded by wrapping a couple stubs that were left below the topping cut in order to DdRT down, and caught the top easily.
Pays to be good at rigging your own limbs/ tops. Not my first time catching my own cuttings.
I always assert that my employees are the biggest danger to me. I can mitigate most things, and rely on skill and knowledge, but when the "Butt, I though..." happens...
P.S. The tie-off and mid-pull-line deflection is MA for pulling. If you are mid-span, you get the greatest effect. A second rope with a carabiner clipped to the pull-rope can allow you to get more mid-span when the mid-span is way off the ground.
The line angle and distance from anchor affect things. I don't know the amount of MA. Its effective. When you have a harder pull needed, the guys just sit on the line, no wrist strain. As the line is loaded, they can push down and shimmy out a bit (they aren't balancing on the line or anything). Sit on your butt, do more work than you possibly can with pulling as hard as possible with your hands.
You've maybe heard that Complacency Kills. A good one liner, like Conversations Kill (not focused on the situation at hand).
Yep, all aspects but the wind, which is out of one's control. The farther up a stem, the more the wind will probably be an issue.
Most times, people get away with this type of stuff.
I always have a standing rule, If You Are Not Sure, Don't Do It...Stop...Say Something. It comes right after the If You Can't Do It Safely... rule
This is for employees, as well as myself. Too often, they don't recognize when they are not sure. Its usually follow up by, "Butt, I though...", and as we know, Butts are often closely associated with crap. Rarely do people get hurt when everyone works on the basis of being sure of everything. More realistically, injuries and property damage happen a lot less when people try to Plan the Work, Work the Plan, and evaluate If the Plan Worked.
Absolute surety is clearly an ideal, and can't happen most off the time, and especially with humans, trees, wind, hidden defects, uncertainty of known defects.
You learned an 'expensive lesson, cheaply', in that being way up a big tree is the last place you want to alone and clobbered by a heavy part of a tree.
I generally try to have the groundie take a couple wraps and tie-off the pull rope. This keep it out of the way until the cut is made, which isn't always immediate. Sometimes, its just storing the rope off the ground out of the way until ground felling, sometimes its for the top.
I was topping a doug-fir that had lost its original top. There was a dog-leg. Back-Lean over the garage.
My groundie, like so many groundie (that's part of why they're groundie laborers), wanted to take short cuts. Had he just followed the standing plan, and tied off the pull rope with a little tension, it couldn't have set back when he started getting swarmed by yellow jackets and I told him to run. The top set back (no wedge, as it wasn't big, and had a pull rope), and hinge started to tear, putting the rope where it would run over me and my flipline as the top was going to head for the soon-gonna-need-a-new-roof garage. I quickly responded by wrapping a couple stubs that were left below the topping cut in order to DdRT down, and caught the top easily.
Pays to be good at rigging your own limbs/ tops. Not my first time catching my own cuttings.
I always assert that my employees are the biggest danger to me. I can mitigate most things, and rely on skill and knowledge, but when the "Butt, I though..." happens...
P.S. The tie-off and mid-pull-line deflection is MA for pulling. If you are mid-span, you get the greatest effect. A second rope with a carabiner clipped to the pull-rope can allow you to get more mid-span when the mid-span is way off the ground.
The line angle and distance from anchor affect things. I don't know the amount of MA. Its effective. When you have a harder pull needed, the guys just sit on the line, no wrist strain. As the line is loaded, they can push down and shimmy out a bit (they aren't balancing on the line or anything). Sit on your butt, do more work than you possibly can with pulling as hard as possible with your hands.
You've maybe heard that Complacency Kills. A good one liner, like Conversations Kill (not focused on the situation at hand).
ghostice
Been here a while
And Reg Coates has some really good thoughts in one of his videos about what he calls "F-It Cuts" - in my estimation, really worth watching and thinking about. There's a thread on this board discussing this elsewhere too.
So here's this summer's story . . . .
After dismembering a spreading 45 ft Manitoba Maple all day I was left with the larger top on what was left of one side of the tree. Blistering heat. Wind starting to come up in gusts but only now and then. Tree was on the edge of the property (with tomatos, garden gnomes and whatnot directly below on the adjacent lot). We put two tag lines on the top to pull this one down on the right side of the fence for insurance - brothers in law were doing a great job on the ground. What could go wrong? Facecuts were in, we're ready to go with the backcut and I had no sooner rev'd up the saw and touched the bark when I heard yelling and looked over at the deck to see 80+ yr old father in law who had had a couple of strokes - he had come out to watch and was standing with his walker, now tottering over four steep steps down onto a cement patio. He tottered back and forth a couple more times, then fell backwards into a patio chair - I yelled pull - the guys did and down came the top as planned. But ya know, ya never know.
So I guess, expect the unexpected is pretty good advice afterall 'cuz Ya Never Know!
So here's this summer's story . . . .
After dismembering a spreading 45 ft Manitoba Maple all day I was left with the larger top on what was left of one side of the tree. Blistering heat. Wind starting to come up in gusts but only now and then. Tree was on the edge of the property (with tomatos, garden gnomes and whatnot directly below on the adjacent lot). We put two tag lines on the top to pull this one down on the right side of the fence for insurance - brothers in law were doing a great job on the ground. What could go wrong? Facecuts were in, we're ready to go with the backcut and I had no sooner rev'd up the saw and touched the bark when I heard yelling and looked over at the deck to see 80+ yr old father in law who had had a couple of strokes - he had come out to watch and was standing with his walker, now tottering over four steep steps down onto a cement patio. He tottered back and forth a couple more times, then fell backwards into a patio chair - I yelled pull - the guys did and down came the top as planned. But ya know, ya never know.
So I guess, expect the unexpected is pretty good advice afterall 'cuz Ya Never Know!
Thanks for the information and education!!! This is exactly why I love the Buzz.. I've been logging for a long time but started climbing a little over a year. The climber that taught me only the basics. I've learned a lot of rigging from seasoned ground guys and on my own. I appreciate all the information I can get. I learned a lot from here also. Thanks again!!!
Losing a top over backwards is not really an “unexpected”, but a fairly big fuckup in my world.
If you can’t get a good read on the lean, or there is any wind put a tag line on it. Never trust wedges if there is any wind, unless you have plenty of experience pounding wedges.
Lastly, slow down on your backcuts and watch and feel what is happening.
Sorry for being such a blunt A-Hole, and welcome to TB. Its a great place with lots to be learned, no matter your skill level.
If you can’t get a good read on the lean, or there is any wind put a tag line on it. Never trust wedges if there is any wind, unless you have plenty of experience pounding wedges.
Lastly, slow down on your backcuts and watch and feel what is happening.
Sorry for being such a blunt A-Hole, and welcome to TB. Its a great place with lots to be learned, no matter your skill level.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
A good clarification... Only wedge tops over if very wedge-beating experienced. I beat over a thousand trees before having a pull rope.
Holding a forward-leaning top in place , a wedge is a good safety measure.
Holding a forward-leaning top in place , a wedge is a good safety measure.
Chaplain242
Branched out member
Happens a lot here because we get sea breezes anywhere from midday to mid afternoon, and inland breezes that can change direction quickly too. I have gotten to the point where if its midday or later when these changes generally occur, and there is expensive targets at risk, I open up an hourly weather app for the suburb and see what direction a fresh gust will come from, as had so many of these events occur. It is worse in smaller trees as they don't have the weight to resist wind change and can go anywhere when a fresh gust hits and you are on the back cut....
Thickets of trees have there own risks, as well as those near multi-story buildings as the wind can get funneled through these. I had one job I had to cut-short (excuse the pun) as prevailing wind was 25mph, and the sudden gust through an alley reached over 70mph - cut branches landed further away than the height they were cut from... scary...
Thickets of trees have there own risks, as well as those near multi-story buildings as the wind can get funneled through these. I had one job I had to cut-short (excuse the pun) as prevailing wind was 25mph, and the sudden gust through an alley reached over 70mph - cut branches landed further away than the height they were cut from... scary...
New threads New posts
-
test
-
-
-
Fruit tree holding on by a thread, client wants to get another year out of it. Thoughts?- Started by climbingmonkey24
- Replies: 46
-
-
-
