Gearing up for next spring

Brando CalPankian

Brando CalPankian

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
Pine City, MN
I'm pricing out what I need to have a decent all around PHC rig. I have access to a rental compressor, and can build a spray trailer. Not a huge budget but am not looking to break the bank either. Thanks for your advice!

For reference, my PHC background comes from a big 3 company, which had a limitless budget. I'm just not familiar with what works with less money to start.
 
Hey Brando- things have gotten a bit more complicated in our neck of the woods now that MN Wanner sold to Altec. For about 20 years we've used little 50gal skids in small aluminum utility trailers, about 10 years ago we added 225gal nurse tanks to the beds of 2500s. Works pretty well to get a cheap spray/fert setup going, that still has a usable truck for the winter. DM if you want to set up a time to chat.
 
I have a 300 gallon skid sprayer that was used mostly for fert that could be had. Always stored inside, a few bags of Doggett fert and several 2.5 gal hort oil go with it. Udor RO-110 pump. $4500 negotiable.
 
When you say you can build a spray trailer...what do you mean by that? Start from scratch and assemble the pump, engine, plumbing, etc.....? Or build a trailer to put a purchased unit on?

I've been happy dealing with Sprayer Depot. Have bought piece and parts from them for a few years. Last year I bought a new King's sprayer from them. I found one on their site I liked, but wanted a few changes. That was simple and the price increases were very reasonable. I was worried it would be like "we already have these built, so to customize, we need to make big changes". Instead it was more like "Hose Reel B costs $40 more than Hose Reel A, so the cost of the sprayer will be $40 more."

What are you treating? Are injections necessary? If so, I've been happy with Quickjet Air (but NOT the old Quickjet). Rainbow's Q-connect would be compelling if I were starting from scratch. Tree IV is a cheaper way to get going and does well if you aren't doing dozens and dozens of trees.

For soil injections, I really like the injector with flow meter: https://www.mkrittenhouse.com/us/rootfeeder-soil-injector-with-or-without-flow-meter (technically, not a flow meter, but a totalizer)
 
I'd be building the whole unit from scratch utilizing a pre built trailer. It seems simple enough to do.

I'd be treating a lot of oakwilt, EAB, root rot, and boring insects, as well as feet and soil amending. Soil injections and a solid jet sprayer up to and above 30' would be nice. Injections also. There's a guy on here who was offering me his injection kit for a good deal as he doesn't use it.

I've got a contract with my local city, so I'd be doing dozens of trees this spring. They ran out of budget to do EAB this fall, otherwise I'd have gone tree IV just to get them done.

Thanks for the link!

@oldoakman, I may be interested. It'd be after the holidays so I can finish my pruning/removal contract. It's eating all of my spare time.

@SaintPaulSam, I'll dm you sometime soon when I have time to chat. Been wide open as of late.

Thank you for your input! It's very helpful.
 
For oak wilt prevention, I think the biggest decision is 12V or 120V pump for macro. I went 120. Haven't had any problems reaching trees using client outlets yet. I have a generator I could bring if needed. 12V (and an extra battery - just in case) certainly makes it easier to not worry of a client is home to get access to an outlet if needed.

I'm not sure I'm 100% comfortable building a sprayer from scratch...but I've figured out more difficult things! The decision to buy for me came down to having it on a skid that I take in and out of the truck. I built a "cart it slides on and off of". Having a dedicated trailer makes that easier.
 
ATH said:
For oak wilt prevention, I think the biggest decision is 12V or 120V pump for macro. I went 120. Haven't had any problems reaching trees using client outlets yet. I have a generator I could bring if needed. 12V (and an extra battery - just in case) certainly makes it easier to not worry of a client is home to get access to an outlet if needed.

I'm not sure I'm 100% comfortable building a sprayer from scratch...but I've figured out more difficult things! The decision to buy for me came down to having it on a skid that I take in and out of the truck. I built a "cart it slides on and off of". Having a dedicated trailer makes that easier.
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I was thinking 120v. I have a 6.5kw propane generator that I'd use. 12v could work if I used the trucks generators to recharge batteries sort of thing. Never thought of using a customers hookups. Could use gas powered pumps too.

I built one at a big 3 when I worked for one years ago. It wasn't too difficult. Biggest thing was making sure there's no mix between tanks, particularly if using herbicides and ferts in the same system.

I was thinking of having a big parent tank for just water, then smaller tanks for dedicated products based on usage. A 2.5gal for miticide for instance as that's less common for me than fert. It would also let me bypass the little tanks to "wash" the hoses after applications to prevent incidental product application.

I'd thought of the truck slide in deal but it seemed like I'd be grumpy about moving it in and out. Trailers are fairly "cheap" for convenience. The issue lies in tight driveways...
 
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Brando CalPankian said:
I'd be building the whole unit from scratch utilizing a pre built trailer. It seems simple enough to do.

I'd be treating a lot of oakwilt, EAB, root rot, and boring insects, as well as feet and soil amending. Soil injections and a solid jet sprayer up to and above 30' would be nice. Injections also. There's a guy on here who was offering me his injection kit for a good deal as he doesn't use it.

I've got a contract with my local city, so I'd be doing dozens of trees this spring. They ran out of budget to do EAB this fall, otherwise I'd have gone tree IV just to get them done.

Thanks for the link!

@oldoakman, I may be interested. It'd be after the holidays so I can finish my pruning/removal contract. It's eating all of my spare time.

@SaintPaulSam, I'll dm you sometime soon when I have time to chat. Been wide open as of late.

Thank you for your input! It's very helpful.
Click to expand...
No worries, its not going anywhere.
 
I'll try to remember to get a pic of my cart. I makes loading and unloading an (empty) sprayer a breeze. Biggest downside is if it's not empty and I need the truck for something else...

I don't use same sprayers for herbicide and other treatments. Not doing a ton of herbicide work makes that easier. But if I did do a bunch, would also make it easier to justify buying a larger dedicated unit. As it is, we have a 25 gallon with 12v pump from TSC and (3) five gallon backpack sprayers used in the woods... A company in town mixed products so it has me extra super cautious...it was all herbicide, but they used glyphosate insecticide of 2,4-d/dicamba/mcpp mix to control lawn weeds. Killed 70 acres of turf at the university!
 
If I were building my own sprayer, I'd look hard at setting it up so it would either inject or siphon product into the stream after pulling out of the tank before feeding the hose going to the gun. That would allow for one big tank then just small tanks of straight product.

I've looked for them, but that was years ago and didn't really find many options. Since I've seen systems that do that but didn't look really hard because I'm set. A small Forest fire rig would do this with foam ....
 
Having extensively used both, skip the Tree IV and get a Q-connect. As much as I don't like giving a direct competitor money, it really is superior in basically every way. We'll be trying out a QuikJet Air next spring, with the Stinger needle. Looking forward to running some side-by-side tests to compare speed.

For macro infusions, do you actually need a powered pump? 2.5 gal hand pumps work great for propiconazole, we've never felt the need to get anything more advanced. Easy enough to maintain pressure by hand. Granted, we don't do thiabendazole infusions so we don't need the volume.
 
I got the q connect finally, and a deep root fert gun.

I've been looking at the hand pumps. I'm new to DED treatments and want to make sure I'm doing it right from the get go. I finished my big projects and investing now I'll pay dividends.

Matias said:
Mazzei is the company I used for my fertigation injector. It's very simple and very high quality
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So this is the inline injector style? I've not used those. Big B had a really complicated valve system on their trucks with a rinsate tank to clean lines between switches. Talked with QSpray folks and they said it's completely cost prohibitive.

@ATH, I'll look at SprayDepot too. Forgot about them.

Are micro injections for DED and Oak Wilt effective enough to get by for the first year, or should I throw down and just make sure I can do macros right off the bat?
 
Everything instead is macros are much more effective for fungicides...I've never done micro. Would rather do those...but if it's not gonna work, not what I want to sell. Maybe hold off until you sell a few treatments then buy the equipment??? First job should about pay for equipment. Second covers chemical plus some profit. Beyond that you are into profitability.
 
Brando CalPankian said:
I got the q connect finally, and a deep root fert gun.

I've been looking at the hand pumps. I'm new to DED treatments and want to make sure I'm doing it right from the get go. I finished my big projects and investing now I'll pay dividends.


So this is the inline injector style? I've not used those. Big B had a really complicated valve system on their trucks with a rinsate tank to clean lines between switches. Talked with QSpray folks and they said it's completely cost prohibitive.

@ATH, I'll look at SprayDepot too. Forgot about them.

Are micro injections for DED and Oak Wilt effective enough to get by for the first year, or should I throw down and just make sure I can do macros right off the bat
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I have never used them in a setting where I had to worry about the rinse dump scenario, so I can umagine the plumbing costs start to stack up. I was making enough money and living cheaply enough that I never thought twice about buying the best gear, and after many years of running it hard and living in a fuck ton of sun, felt like I had come out ahead after all. It has always stung to shell out so much upfront, but even though money now is worth more than money later, saving money and potential repair costs- and worse still downtime- now is worth more still in my experience. I buy Banjo valves, or 316 stainless. I do build my systems myself to save money. I don't mind assembling parts. I am lucky enough to have all the parts sitting on shelves around here. These guys are local to me...

Home - PBMSPRAYERS.COM

pbmsprayers.com pbmsprayers.com
 
ATH said:
Everything instead is macros are much more effective for fungicides...I've never done micro. Would rather do those...but if it's not gonna work, not what I want to sell. Maybe hold off until you sell a few treatments then buy the equipment??? First job should about pay for equipment. Second covers chemical plus some profit. Beyond that you are into profitability.
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I just had a good talk with @SaintPaulSam about this actually. It was insightful. I'll just do it right and not skimp. Like you said, it pays for itself quickly. I have some jobs sold, so that helps. Easy to advertise and we have some trade show/sponsor events that will make it easy to sell.

Matias said:
I have never used them in a setting where I had to worry about the rinse dump scenario, so I can umagine the plumbing costs start to stack up. I was making enough money and living cheaply enough that I never thought twice about buying the best gear, and after many years of running it hard and living in a fuck ton of sun, felt like I had come out ahead after all. It has always stung to shell out so much upfront, but even though money now is worth more than money later, saving money and potential repair costs- and worse still downtime- now is worth more still in my experience. I buy Banjo valves, or 316 stainless. I do build my systems myself to save money. I don't mind assembling parts. I am lucky enough to have all the parts sitting on shelves around here. These guys are local to me...

Home - PBMSPRAYERS.COM

pbmsprayers.com pbmsprayers.com
Click to expand...
Upfront cost has to be thought of as an investment. Still scary to fork out that much money, but it's like a kid. I just want this to do well. Thank you! Do it right or don't do it. There's a reason for the price.
 
I'm not big on cheaper is better, but I found this gem.

www.solutionsstores.com

Piston Pump Skid Spray Rig- 50 Gal, Low Profile, MSD41, 300' Hose

The Solutions Piston Pump Skid Spray Rig is a professional spray rig that provides a high volume and high-pressure spray. Featuring a Maruyama MSD41 Piston Pump, it is rated to output up to 8 gallons per minute at 570 psi. It is great for spraying trees, turf, and other large areas. It comes...
www.solutionsstores.com www.solutionsstores.com

They have a diaphragm pump option too.

I see it's not a Honda engine, getting clarification on that before I pull the trigger.
 
ATH said:
I'll try to remember to get a pic of my cart. I makes loading and unloading an (empty) sprayer a breeze. Biggest downside is if it's not empty and I need the truck for something else...

I don't use same sprayers for herbicide and other treatments. Not doing a ton of herbicide work makes that easier. But if I did do a bunch, would also make it easier to justify buying a larger dedicated unit. As it is, we have a 25 gallon with 12v pump from TSC and (3) five gallon backpack sprayers used in the woods... A company in town mixed products so it has me extra super cautious...it was all herbicide, but they used glyphosate insecticide of 2,4-d/dicamba/mcpp mix to control lawn weeds. Killed 70 acres of turf at the university!
Click to expand...
With the electric pump style, how would treating smaller trees work?
For example, if I had an oak to treat for oak wilt and only needed 1.5 gal, is the electric pump fine for doing so? Or could I dilute my product and maintain efficacy while still using that style pump?
I have both the 3 gal hand pump and the electric pump in my cart, but if I could save the $600 and use that towards more chemical it'd make more sense.
 
I'd say either one can treat either small or large trees. The hand pump would be more efficient for small and powered pump more efficient for larger. If you only have small trees scheduled, it's not unreasonable to start there...but I tend to find people are more interested in protecting larger trees.
 
ATH said:
I'd say either one can treat either small or large trees. The hand pump would be more efficient for small and powered pump more efficient for larger. If you only have small trees scheduled, it's not unreasonable to start there...but I tend to find people are more interested in protecting larger trees
Click to expand...
All of the jobs I have sold are massive. Haha. Good to know I can do both though.
 
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