Gargantuan Fir

skew

skew

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scenic Skew Gardens
I looked at a very challenging job yesterday. It is a White Fir about 40" d.b.h. and around a hundred feet tall. It is leaning about 10 degrees. It is perched on a hillside about 30' above a fancy masonry pit toilet(USFS issue). Upon inspecting the root crown I shoved the pickeroon that I was using for a walking stick all the way into the hilt. On top of this the groung that the tree is coming out of is an active landslide. Refridgerator sized chunks of soft earth are moving down this gully at a quick rate.
I have deemed the tree unsafe to climb. However there is an ideal crane setup that would put the rotation point of the crane about 70' feet away from the tree. I am thinking of using a 120 ton to tie into and work the tree down conventionally. The trunk pieces can not be bombed down because of the hillside- they will go into the side of the building. I looked at the possibility of using two cranes-one to tie into and one to swing chunks but there might not be enough room to set both cranes up as well as there could be a conflict regarding angles of the trunk and the booms ect. If I bring in a second crane it will also have to be a biggie as well to have enough boom to reach. The local company has a 240! in addition to the 120.
It seems like quite a challenge.
One other thought that I had was maybe to use one crane to secure the entire tree and the other to swing chunks out while being tied into the tree- my worry being all along that the tree will possibly give way while being worked down.
Any way looks to be a record high for a proposal. It seems like they are gonna have to do it though - the tree is also perched over a state high that sees very heavy use.
Bottom line I can't believe that this tree was never adressed previously.
Oh yeah- they want it done right away.
 
"One other thought that I had was maybe to use one crane to secure the entire tree and the other to swing chunks out while being tied into the tree- my worry being all along that the tree will possibly give way while being worked down."



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Skew,

You know how it is trying to envision your job from a computer, but two things seem to be coming to my mind. If you have to remove the debris, I would get the one big crane (240 T) and try to pick the whole tree or as big of a piece as possible. Then go home with the extra cash that you never spent on the second crane! /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If you can't do the first (1 cut) then I would either guy the trunk and run up to set the chokers then burn down and pop the top out-

or I would use two cranes like you mentioned, but stay tied into one and rig with the other. I don't see the benefit of just having a crane there o stabilize the tree while you climb it. If you have to pay to have two cranes there, they might as well be used to help you work. I'd use that other crane to put me where ever I had to go. Why climb around and burn all that energy if you don't need to?

Like I said, it's hard to see everything from my little screen here. Whatever you do, be safe and get some pics up! /forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
1 thing to consider if you secure the tree w/ a crane inorderto climb and rig it is wether the crane could handle the weight if it failed. If noy the crane,tree and you could all go over. the other thing is the attatchement pointcould be the weakest point. it should be solid from there up if you climb above it.
 
IF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A 240 TON TO DO THE PICKS, IS THERE ANY ROOM FOR YOU TO USE A 120 OR 150' BOOM LIFT? IT WOULD KEEP YOU COSTS DOWN ON RENTAL, AS WELL AS GIVE YOU A HUGE AMOUNT OF MOBILITY FROM THE BOOM. IF YOU ARE LOCATED IN THWE NORTHEAST, I COULD REFER YOU TO A COMPANY I USED TO WORK WITH.
IT SOUND LIKE TO ME THAT YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN THE TREE.
YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SET SLINGS(FROM THE BOOM) WHILE YOUR GROUND CREW WAS RELEASING THE LOAD FROM THE CRANE. IN GOOD CONDITIONS, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO DO THE CRANE WORK INSIDE A FOUR HOUR MINI.
 
I wasn't really thinking about rigging the entire tree because I've (a) never had a situation where it would be possible to do to an entire tree of this size and (b) I've never done a tree job with any thing over 65 ton for a crane.
There are some considerations. How would you choke a 100' plus tree? There is a split top( about the top 50') that one side is dead- will the tree stay together for long enough to lay on the ground. Also there could be a conflict with the high way. The other concern there is it could be difficult for the operator to lay the tree down in the space provided.
Yeah I'm totally with you there about getting a lift there Mark- I guess I sort of meant after getting a lift to tie in up yonder.
As far as the expense goes.... I am definately not figuring the cost of the crane. I am going to bid the job on a flat rate for me and my help and the crane(or cranes if need be) will be paid for by the customer. Which happens to be the federal govt.(USFS)
Sorry for the lack of photos but due to slow connection and technological retardation it is currently beyond my capacities.
But if I do thje job I will make sure to get some photos to post.
 
There are a couple of lanes the tree could be felled on. One would go into the highway that is the equivelent to interstate highway here. That lane would also leave the trunk bouncing down into the side of the masonry "Clavis Moultrie" composting toilet which, it is my understanding cost upwards of 150,000 fun tickets to build. The tree is so profoundly rotten at the base that I don't trust the hingablity of the wood to pull it across the lean up the other lane.
I will be having a conversation tommorow with the HMFIC to see if their checkbook can with stand the impact.
I gave them a "ball park" figure site unseen that is not even in the "ball park" of my reality now that I have spent some time to look at it. The 120 is 250 per hour and 10 doughnuts a mile to move it. 80 mile one way trip to job.
Crane co. charge both ways(of course).
 
a picture would help out alot. if you are 70' away, the boom is going to be stretched out. a 120 might not be able to withstand a top at that angle. is there a way to hang the top and skin it over your work area without trying to lay it down? using a 200-250 and a boom lift might allow you to hanh the top and skin it from the boom.
man, i wish i could see it. there is probably a safe solution to your problem.
what state are you in?
 
Skew,

After reading more of your descriptions I say cut the whole tree and dice and lower or get two cranes and stay in one yourself for the entire job.

You can sling large trees many ways. The crane company we've used does the Rockefeller Center christmas tree each year and rig that in one piece. What ever you decide, back it up. If you're not sure if the top will hold together, get your strength down low and redirect higher to keep it balanced. If it breaks it will just tip over. That would be better than falling. BUT- remember that a tip over will shock the boom a bit so a higher safety factor needs to be applied.
 
I talked to my crane man today. He said he had just gone and looked at it with one of the other companies and that they had missed the fact that the tree was hollow at the base. Whoops no root crown inspection. After giving him that info he agreed that the tree was unclimbable and that they wouldn't want to do it that way. They were looking at using a 70 ton which I am pretty convinced will not have enough boom to reach over the top of the tree. So with their 120 ton which only has 20 ' more boom than the seventy. Then for only 35 dollars more an hour we can get the 240 ton crane with I think over 250 feet of stick.
Now the choice seems to be weather to use two cranes - which I am not convinced we have enough space for- or jst use one to tie into and rig the tree down coventionally.
The brush can fall but the trunk peices will have to berigger so we don't get a bad bounce.
The tree is in southern colorado.
So any way I have to put together a proposal for the job this evening or in the a.m.
Hopefully they don't go with a low bid as this job looks very demanding- probably the stickiest bit of crane work that I have looked at since Hugo.
 
I had a crane operator look at the Ash tree I posted pics of in the thread 'Climb it?', I guessed the weight of the tree around 10k. The closest we could get the pin, was 75feet away. According to the operator's charts.......120ton crane. Good for 12500k at 75feet.
 
OK- here is the plan. It looks like a 2 craner. I will have the 240 ton and the 70 ton. A combined fee of 480 dollars an hour (plus 1600.00 travel for each machine). At that rate I had better not miss on the crane time guesstimate or my profit will very quickly evaporate. Wish me luck.
 
Mark,

If you have a weak top and so choke down lower for strength, how do you redirect up higher for balance??
 
This is a good question. I had this conversation with some one today and we were wondering if the rigging to do this would be standard on a cranes' tool box. Maybe some short straps to go around the big strap?
 
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