Gaffing conifers while pruning

So Holdfast, does that mean you think its alright to spike trees to prune them?

I grew up in a small logging community as well. An awful lot of the loggers I know have very little respect for know it all arborists, but a great deal of respect for people who have an ethical opinion and stick to their guns.
 
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What would you think of a company that represents as an Industry leader with all of the standard certifications and credentials that regularly had their climbers spur up conifers while pruning?

Big Deal or who cares?

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I think it IS a big deal and sad to hear. If you can't prune a tree without spiking it, you should defer, or refer, to someone that can.
 
Interesting to see the responses based on the region of the climber. If I read this post outside the pnw, I would reply with only hacks spike non removals as well .
As a C.A. who climbs five days a week, year round it's a blessing if I dont have to climb a doug fir every day. Personally the Doug Fir is the exception to the rule. I have seen four foot firs topped at thirty feet that go on to develop new tops with strong unions on a weekley basis,hundreds of them spiked and all in very healthy condition.
I'm not advocating the use of spurs but I feel it's a very risky aspect of tree work that is unnecessary. I have climbed countless firs only to reach my tip and find it was piece of deadwood the size of a pencil. Many climbers around here spike to the first solid branch send the spikes down, once they are on a known solid tip. I can't be convinced that this is harmful. The bark on 3 plus dbh or fifty year old firs is at least 2 inches thick.
 
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Interesting to see the responses based on the region of the climber. If I read this post outside the pnw, I would reply with only hacks spike non removals as well .
As a C.A. who climbs five days a week, year round it's a blessing if I dont have to climb a doug fir every day. Personally the Doug Fir is the exception to the rule. I have seen four foot firs topped at thirty feet that go on to develop new tops with strong unions on a weekley basis,hundreds of them spiked and all in very healthy condition.
I'm not advocating the use of spurs but I feel it's a very risky aspect of tree work that is unnecessary. I have climbed countless firs only to reach my tip and find it was piece of deadwood the size of a pencil. Many climbers around here spike to the first solid branch send the spikes down, once they are on a known solid tip. I can't be convinced that this is harmful. The bark on 3 plus dbh or fifty year old firs is at least 2 inches thick.

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Good post brushdragon. It's almost a funny thing to tell some customers that using spikes to climb trees is harmful. They say "Well, I've had these dozen or so trees (Douglas-fir, Western redcedar, Bigleaf Maple etc) topped for my view for the last forty years and every company I've ever hired has used spikes. None of them have ever died."

So it's a hard sell to get them to spend more money paying for the same work done in a different way. And to say that a proficient climber can do the work without spikes in the same time is disingenuous. I'm efficient in all methods and I know that spikes are often by far the fastest (and safest) choice.
 
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A lot of spur climbers are not "tied in" but only on flipline and spurs. They can fall down the trunk if they gaff out or fall to the ground if there flipline fails. Plenty of accidents have occurred this way. Whichever way you are climbing, you should have a means to be doubly tied when performing a cut.

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Yeah the flip-line is a 1 point of attachment last time I checked. And unless your trees have reverse taper, your not gonna fall out of the tree after spurring out. Do you have 2 points of attachment when you are climbing SRT?

Last time I checked you have to have two points of attachment when using a chainsaw in the tree. If someone doesn't have two then technically they're breaking the rules. Myself and most climbers I know just make our climbing line our second flip-line/point of attachment. With our wire core being are 1st.

Your "if the flip-line fails" argument is a hypothetical what if. What if your SRT fails and you fall to the ground and die? Can't blame a system based on a climber who can't recognize bad/worn out equipment.

By the way, on a prune when I'm using spikes. It's to access a good crotch to set my climb lime in, then usually ditch my spikes. Then it's all the same after that.

However though if you see someone using spikes for a prune they are probably a hack. But your blanket labeling someone a hack who is using spurs is wrong. There are reasons and justifications for it, definitely not on every tree though.
 
I know that not all is finite. There are going to be situations where spurs up to the the first safe branch on a 200ft. 100 year old Fir with no branch for 80+ft.and a client that can't afford the extra couple hours it's going to take to maybe shoot a "safe" line up, is going to happen in my neighborhood. I have no problem with this and do love the giant beauties like old friends that have watched over me, my whole life. In my opinion there will always be people cooking bad food,cheating on taxes, over charging for car repair, and spiking the heck out of trees that can be entered with a little more skill. The best I can think of is to climb and prune to a standard you can be proud of, report if you must, and know true hacks don't last. It's called karma and it works.I just spoke up earlier in protest to the "tone" this thread was taking and like unatool said "vegans" ....
 
I rarely if ever pull spurs out to prune a conifer. I have come across a few trees that unless I was able to set a line completely around the trunk ascending spurless was not an option. On extremely rough terrain like Gord was talking about with production pressure on it is hard to make the choice to spend 15 minutes or more with the whole crew, the boss, and the customer watching while you throw your little ball and string at the tree when if you had slapped your spurs on you would have been up there 10 minutes ago. But that is usually me. Driving them all crazy while I figure out the spurless way into every prune.

Here in the northwest though many companies and I would say the majority of companies likely spur most douglas fir pruning jobs. When I show some people who have always spured their way up firs, how I get into firs they are blown away. And usually they take a closer look at the methods and tools that I am using to make it happen.

We all need to be willing to take the time to help educate without pointing an accusatory I am better than you finger at people. We also need to look at why companies do end up taking short cuts like spiking prunes: a flooded over competetive marketplace where cut throat sales tactics are commonplace, crews that have way to much production pressure and very little training or oversight, and company owners too focused on the bottom line and how much their company is going to sell for in five years when it is time to retire instead of the legacy their company leaves behind.

Why don't you just come out and name the company Zeb. Is it Seattle Tree Preservation? Another big name company? You know you want to yell it from the mountain top so just do it already.
 
Here in the northwest though many companies and I would say the majority of companies likely spur most douglas fir Why don't you just come out and name the company Zeb. Is it Seattle Tree Preservation? Another big name company? You know you want to yell it from the mountain top so just do it already.

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I have met a few climbers that think I'm crazy for not spiking firs, but the majority of guys I know do not.
Curious why you threw out STP. One of the best climbers in the nation works for them and I can assure you that any arborist would be fired for spiking a non removal. I respect Zeb for not naming the company. I'm tired of whiners and tatle tales in this bizz. Quality work will seperate you from the hacks in the long run. BTW any local knows zeb was outing the Big Green Machine.
 
I thought for sure you were implying evergreen tree service. They have been doing very well all the while spiking every evergreen in town.
Do you think that your post has had something to do with the changes in the company's pruning practices whoever the may be?
 
Partly. The company had others besides myself exerting some positive pressure to improve. They are not the only industry leader around here that still holds on to some poor practices. Hopefully things continue to change for the better.

Who are you working for Brushdragon?
 
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